Bad day

[gizmom]

I had some time this afternoon, beautiful day. I decided to spend the afternoon going through the calves.



Started out ok I didn't take my camera just used the phone for the most part I just wanted that quiet time to study the calves.

Then I see him I'm thinking oh heck, got him up called the boss Mike came over we could not get the tube down him to release the gas. Couldn't get bloat meds in him and couldn't find a bloat trocar I know we have more than one but we couldn't find them today. Called the vet told them we needed help loaded up got to the vet Beth took one look ( calf was suffocating) grabbed a scaple and a trocar and saved him, at least for now. So much for my nice relaxing afternoon. I'm stumped as to why the calf bloated o change in diet or management just a chronic bloater? Never had much luck with a calf that had to use a trocar on so thankful it was a steer not a bull.




Gizmom

 

[Silver]

Not sure how old the calf was, I always keep a 14 ga. needle in my pocket just in case. Young calves who's rumen hasn't developed bloat in the abomasum which isn't accessed in the same fashion as the rumen. I put them on their back and put the needle about halfway or a little more between the sternum and the naval.

 

[gizmom]

Silver

Good tip thanks. This calf is five months old, We don't typically have bloat issues if we do usually a drench will clear it right up. This little fella was in trouble I could see him expanding as we worked it is a helpless feeling when you know what you need to do but don't have what you need to do it. Do you think the 14 ga needle would have worked on this calf? He Is weighing around 500 pounds.

Gizmom

 

[Silver]

Silver

Good tip thanks. This calf is five months old, We don't typically have bloat issues if we do usually a drench will clear it right up. This little fella was in trouble I could see him expanding as we worked it is a helpless feeling when you know what you need to do but don't have what you need to do it. Do you think the 14 ga needle would have worked on this calf? He Is weighing around 500 pounds.

Gizmom

No, I think he is too old for that to work. I do know that helpless feeling though.

 

[blacksnake]

I had a 5 month old steer that ate a plastic bag that blew into the pasture. I tried to get it out of his mouth but was unable to do so. A couple of days later he was badly bloated. I ran a garden hose down to relieve the gas. I had to repeat this daily for about 4-5 days. Then one more time after 3 more days. No more issues after that. Went ahead and grew to nice steer. Not sure if the plastic caused it or not.

 

[bse]

its been several years, kinda the same thing, 800lb calf vet came out and put a needle about a foot off backbone and between ribs let him right down, but did say get him gone.

 

[76 Bar]

How's the calf doing? Hopefully on the mend with no further bloat issues.

 

[gcreekrch]

I have stuck a couple with a knife and they lived.

Use a needle as Silver says occasionally but have only done it up high just back of the ribs.

Mineral oil and LA are a good combination.

Have solved a couple chronics by sewing the gut wall to the hide. Butcher at home when they grew big enough.

 

[Stocker Steve]

What percent of yours are chronic bloaters ?

 

[Lucky]

I had one bloat a couple years ago. Roped him off the atv and jabbed a pocket knife in him between the hip and ribs. He ended up being fine but stayed half bloated for a few weeks. Last week I had a yearling bloat but it went down on it's own after a few days. I think it's just the green grass this time of year. Scary to see them like that though

 

[gcreekrch]

What percent of yours are chronic bloaters ?

I have had 4 in 38 years and out of 10,000 or so feeders.

 

[gizmom]

Update on calf....dead

Now for the rest of the story. When we wormed and weighed a few weeks ago we banded about 16 calves. All of the calves we banded also received a tetanus shot. This calf got tetanus and the bloat was a side effect of the tetanus. We had a suspicion that it could be tetanus when we took him to the vet due to the difficulty we had trying to tube him. He was also walking with a very stiff legged gate, but both these symptoms are also present with bloat. We left him at the vet Thursday evening because we had to deliver bulls to a customer on Friday and had the spring show on Saturday. The vet told us to just leave him through the weekend since we were tied up. She called the boss on Friday told him our first thought had been right because he was stiffing up again. I had to take a horse over today for a checkup and discussed what happened with the vet. He asked me if we used the calibrate banded or the green bands. We normally use the calibrate but since these calves were younger and smaller we opted for the green bands. He then told me they had never had a case of tetanus when a shot was given using the calibrate bander but had several cases when a shot was given and green bands were used. The green bands don't cut off blood flow as effectively as the calibrate bands and tetanus is a blood infection. It was a really nice Resource calf I bred the cow wanting a heifer and knowing if it was a bull it would be steered. The cow always has big calves, this one weighed 95 at birth which for her is a light weight, but I won't sell a bull out of a cow that averages over 100# birthweights. A heifer out of the cow I can manage who I breed her to and the old cow has some exceptional females. This calf was going to make a show steer he was really good. Since we didn't want the calf to suffer we had the vet put the little fella out of his misery. Needless to say we felt horrible about it.

 

[Stocker Steve]

So a tetanus shot at the time of banding is not effective?

 

[Bright Raven]

So a tetanus shot at the time of banding is not effective?

It takes 2 tetanus toxoid shots spaced about 30 days apart to establish immunity. Giving the first tetanus toxoid at the time of banding is not going to skin the cat.

The tetanus antitoxin is to give at the time of a wound when tetanus is a threat but the antitoxin benefits of the antitoxin shot wear off in 10 days. The antitoxin shot does not establish immunity, it counteracts the toxins excreted by the tetani bacteria in the wound or puncture.

 

[Stocker Steve]

So a tetanus shot at the time of banding is not effective?

It takes 2 tetanus toxoid shots spaced about 30 days apart to establish immunity. Giving the first tetanus toxoid at the time of banding is not going to skin the cat.

The tetanus antitoxin is to give at the time of a wound when tetanus is a threat but the antitoxin benefits of the antitoxin shot wear off in 10 days. The antitoxin shot does not establish immunity, it counteracts the toxins excreted by the tetani bacteria in the wound or puncture.

So a tetanus shot contains both toxoid and antitoxin?
If so, why do you think the calf still died from tetanus?

(We used to calibrate band 50 to 75 per year, quit giving tetanus shots, and never lost one...)

 

[Bright Raven]

So a tetanus shot at the time of banding is not effective?

It takes 2 tetanus toxoid shots spaced about 30 days apart to establish immunity. Giving the first tetanus toxoid at the time of banding is not going to skin the cat.

The tetanus antitoxin is to give at the time of a wound when tetanus is a threat but the antitoxin benefits of the antitoxin shot wear off in 10 days. The antitoxin shot does not establish immunity, it counteracts the toxins excreted by the tetani bacteria in the wound or puncture.

So a tetanus shot contains both toxoid and antitoxin?
If so, why did the calf still get die from tetanus?

No. They are separate shots.

Toxoid provides immunity. It takes a primary and a secondary about 30 days apart to establish immunity

Antitoxin counteracts the toxins produced by the tetani bacteria.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I believe you can get black leg and tetanus vaccines that are combined. The you still need to schedule two or three trips through the chute.

 

[gizmom]

BR

Your correct, but giving the shot at the time of banding works 99% of the time. You have a greater understanding of drugs and their interactions than I do, but it is my understanding that their are two types of tetanus vaccines. One you give for a cut or injury it is fast acting the other takes longer. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I understand. The other15 calves we worked lost their credentials in the first ten days or if not lost had dried up prunes where they once were. Had we seen this sooner and given another shot we could have saved him. That is the down side of a larger herd this calf was looking fine walking fine until boom he wasn't and it was to late. Still our fault and when it is the fault of management for a loss it hurts even more. It had not been 30 days since the first shot.

Gizmom

 

[Bright Raven]

BR

Your correct, but giving the shot at the time of banding works 99% of the time. You have a greater understanding of drugs and their interactions than I do, but it is my understanding that their are two types of tetanus vaccines. One you give for a cut or injury it is fast acting the other takes longer. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is what I understand. The other15 calves we worked lost their credentials in the first ten days or if not lost had dried up prunes where they once were. Had we seen this sooner and given another shot we could have saved him. That is the down side of a larger herd this calf was looking fine walking fine until boom he wasn't and it was to late. Still our fault and when it is the fault of management for a loss it hurts even more. It had not been 30 days since the first shot.

Gizmom

You give a tetanus toxoid shot to establish immunity.

If you have an injury, a cut or puncture wound, you give an antitoxin shot. It only lasts 10 days and as the name implies, is only an antitoxin.

I saw a tetanus toxoid shot advertised that one toxoid shot gave acceptable immunity. I don't remember the drug company. But most tetanus toxoid vaccines require 2 shots on initial vaccinations to establish immunity. One toxoid is certainly better than zero toxoid!

 

[Ebenezer]

I believe you can get black leg and tetanus vaccines that are combined. The you still need to schedule two or three trips through the chute.

Easy and cheap way to have the base protection in the same shot. To recover an animal with tetanus is long and laborious. Had a lamb that was my fault and I kept it alive for over a week but finally put it down. I did not have the muscle relaxers that I should have had to give it a speedier recovery. Like taking care of a cold pancake.