Are my cows too small ?

[Nesikep]

I think smaller cow's efficiency largely depends on the climate.. you get a few months of sub 0 temps and the small cows are going to be eating a lot more relative to the bigger ones just to keep warm..

Weight, build type, frame size, climate, forage type, all play roles in the efficiency equation... seems as we're always picking at one and going to an extreme with it. I do find my 1500 lb frame 6 cows are about what I like here.. bigger ones don't produce any more, and smaller ones produce far less.

 

[AllForage]

I think smaller cow's efficiency largely depends on the climate.. you get a few months of sub 0 temps and the small cows are going to be eating a lot more relative to the bigger ones just to keep warm..

Weight, build type, frame size, climate, forage type, all play roles in the efficiency equation... seems as we're always picking at one and going to an extreme with it. I do find my 1500 lb frame 6 cows are about what I like here.. bigger ones don't produce any more, and smaller ones produce far less.

Nesi, now you know I like you but where the h$ll did you get that first part??? Is that Canadian logic???

Btw, nobody is talking extremes. Frame 4 is not extreme. It's a scale of 000 - 10 for crying out loud!!!

 

[hurleyjd]

http://cattletoday.com/archive/2008/April/CT1515.shtml

 

[Nesikep]

From Hurley's link, I really like the last paragraph... as far as I can tell written in 2008?

If calf prices come down 20 percent from what they are now, and they will...

Well, I think that turned out all wrong.

As for my statement on climate, it's just a matter of surface area to weight.. Surface area to weight increases in a nonlinear fashion, and a smaller cow will thus have to have a greater increase of feed during cold weather. I think more important that the cows height at the hip is her build... a couple inches extra on her legs isn't going to affect her metabolism much, if that's the only difference between 2 cows. I am going for smaller cows than what we've bred in the past, so I'm not saying there's nothing to the smaller cow being more efficient, I'm just saying there's MORE to it than JUST hip height...
And yes, my 14-1500 lb Frame 6 cows do wean 50% of their body weight off in 205 days... Not all of them... my herd isn't as consistent as I'd like yet, but I'm working on that too.. It's gonna take me some years to get what I want yet.

 

[ddd75]

why even get smaller cows???? just get sheep.. they are even smaller

 

[Jake]

Takes as much forage to graze two 900 lb cows as one 1500 lb.Two 900 lb cows should produce at least 1200 lbs of calves compared to 800 lbs for the 1500 lb cow

You make that statement as if it’s an absolute. I would think 900 lb cows weaning 600 lb calves would be the exception, not the rule? I’m also not sure I’m convinced those two cows would only eat as much as a single 1500 lb cow. Have there been studies (not singular) to back those claims up? If true, we’d all be raising minis and lowlines.

The number are certainly wrong but smaller cows tend to be more produtive than bigger cows. 9 900lb cows eat about the same as 6 1500lb cows. 900lb cows probably wean 500 to 550lb calves, while 1500lb cows probably wean 650 to 700lb calves.
That gives us:
4500 to 4950lbs vs 3900 to 4200lbs, a difference of 600 to 750lbs. One more calf basically.

Really generous thinking a 900# cows are going to wean off that big of calves.

 

[Nesikep]

Other people have brought it up before in other threads.. so just to stir the pot a little..

9 cows instead of 6 is more tags, vaccines, and labor too... and 900 lb cows you're going to have to be much more careful about the bulls you pick for birthweight or you're going to have additional losses.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Possibly, but very common. Partly due to the fact that cows of that size normally are mated with bulls bigger than their brothers, partly due to better efficiency because the cow needs less % of her intake for sustenance, and thus have more energy for making milk.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Other people have brought it up before in other threads.. so just to stir the pot a little..

9 cows instead of 6 is more tags, vaccines, and labor too... and 900 lb cows you're going to have to be much more careful about the bulls you pick for birthweight or you're going to have additional losses.

There is room for considerable amounts of tags, vaccines, and so on. :2cents:

Edited to add: More careful than you or than me? :hide:

 

[Jake]

Other people have brought it up before in other threads.. so just to stir the pot a little..

9 cows instead of 6 is more tags, vaccines, and labor too... and 900 lb cows you're going to have to be much more careful about the bulls you pick for birthweight or you're going to have additional losses.

There is a reason we don't raise the 900# belt high british breeds anymore. I'm still calling BS on a 900# cow on average raising #550-#600 calves. It just isn't going to happen in 205 in most environments.

 

[Nesikep]

haha.. touche!.. more careful than anyone with big cows :)

 

[ddd75]

I have a 1000 lb cow who weaned a 600 lb calf. last year. a bad bull bred her last year and just weaned that calf she's around 430 lb.

 

[Aaron]

Other people have brought it up before in other threads.. so just to stir the pot a little..

9 cows instead of 6 is more tags, vaccines, and labor too... and 900 lb cows you're going to have to be much more careful about the bulls you pick for birthweight or you're going to have additional losses.

There is a reason we don't raise the 900# belt high british breeds anymore. I'm still calling BS on a 900# cow on average raising #550-#600 calves. It just isn't going to happen in 205 in most environments.

I won't call BS on the weights as many of our Herf/Shorthorn crosses came very close to those numbers 20 years ago. Problem is that you going to have to breed them to lighter birthweight/small bulls and the resulting calves are not going to be popular in making a reputation for yourself with backgrounders/feedlots - too small a carcass. Heifers that came off those 900 lb cows matured into maybe 1000 lb cows themselves, so how were the steers any different down the line? Early maturing - could fatten the steers in 14-15 months, but no weight there.

 

[AllForage]

Let's just see this small cow vs big cow for what it will be. There is a market for the small cows on the grass fed and/or farmer feeder side and then big to feedlots. What I see as 2 different markets. If one can maintain smaller cows and find a terminal cross that puts some size in them that would be the ticket without killin cows with high birthweights.

 

[Jake]

Let's just see this small cow vs big cow for what it will be. There is a market for the small cows on the grass fed and/or farmer feeder side and then big to feedlots. What I see as 2 different markets. If one can maintain smaller cows and find a terminal cross that puts some size in them that would be the ticket without killin cows with high birthweights.

Can't argue with this at all. Person just has to realize which market they are targeting and make sure management and endproduct fits. Far be it from me to chastise someone is making money with their system.

To ddd's point it is hard in any environment for a cow to wean more than 50% of her body weight on a yearly basis unless you are running in incredibly lush country. Then I find it hard to believe you really have 900# cows if your pasture is that lush.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Let's just see this small cow vs big cow for what it will be. There is a market for the small cows on the grass fed and/or farmer feeder side and then big to feedlots. What I see as 2 different markets. If one can maintain smaller cows and find a terminal cross that puts some size in them that would be the ticket without killin cows with high birthweights.

Hear! Hear! There is no be all, end all.

 

[ANAZAZI]

haha.. touche!.. more careful than anyone with big cows :)

My cattle can handle Blonde bulls, but struggle some with Charolais, now that I do not use any terminal bulls, calving goes really smooth. If I in the future want to cull less and sell more big slaughter animals, I beleive a Blonde bull might work again.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I think smaller cow's efficiency largely depends on the climate.. you get a few months of sub 0 temps and the small cows are going to be eating a lot more relative to the bigger ones just to keep warm..quote]

You will notice most of the small cow converts are in the south, or in an arid area, or both.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Really generous thinking a 900# cows are going to wean off that big of calves.

I have one. A small BW heifer who bred back and weaned a 670# steer calf. Should I clone her?

 

[Jake]

Really generous thinking a 900# cows are going to wean off that big of calves.

I have one. A small BW heifer who bred back and weaned a 670# steer calf. Should I clone her?

Probably should a the sample size is big enough that we aren't talking anecdotally.