Another vaccination question

[rogergreaves]

I'm very green so please don't flame me.

My Vet recommended calves be given C/D toxoid at birth (and SE and Virashield) and a 7 or 8 way Clostridium at weaning and once a year thereafter. He also said that he prefers the Pfizer vaccines and the water based vaccines. I've been bugging the heck out of him lately and he's the only vet that will come here so I don't want to run him off with more questions just now.

Here's my dilemma(s). Pfizer doesn't make a C/D toxoid that I can find but it's contained in the 7 or 8 way vaccines. Almost everything that place has it, unless I need it, then they never heard of it. So, I order from the web. Boehringer Ingelheim seems to make an entire line of everything the vet recommended in a water based or an oil based 1 shot.

I have one calf on the ground that arrived yesterday and one dose left of our 8 way. Can I use that instead of a C/D toxoid?
What we've used are all Pfizer vaccines. Since Boehringer Ingelheim seems to make everything I need, could I just switch to them and booster what I already started with the Pfizer stuff or should I stick to the brand I started with? What is really the problem with the oil based vaccines? I know what the vet said, I want to know what cattle people think.

What I'm proposing is: use the BI brand C/D toxoid at birth then, vaccinate the calves with the BI brand 8 way in the fall at weaning then vaccinate the entire herd a month later with the same stuff. The calves would have their two course and the herd would get their annual. We tried spring but there's so much going on in spring with breeding and worming and whatnot. We forgot the vaccines and had to catch them again. There were so many shots related to AI, three or four trips through the chute for some with the re-do on the vaccines, one heifer off cycle getting Scour Bos, twice. It's just too much to keep track of.

 

[dun]

We give 8 way to the babys but when we wean we still give them both the original shot and a booster.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Anything that you give prior to 2-3 months old is just competing with the antibodies that are being passed from cow to calf in the colostrum already. If your mothers have been well vaccinated, I only give the immediate acting stuff at birth. This was recommended by the vet. Selenium, Intranasal IBR/PI3, Oral Rota/Corona. Optional vit. A/D.

They get 8-way, Vibrio Lepto, 2nd Intranasal IBR, Selenium and worming at 2-3 months.

There can be a difference in immunity protection by switching brands. (The slight difference in the makeup of the product.) But if it was more convenient, I do it. Then stick to same one.
I do not know anything about the difference between the oil based vs water based. (And I should. Have some research to do! Lol)

Oh, and of course anything that you band or cut needs the tetanus ahead of time if possible.

 

[John SD]

I wouldn't get hung up on brand names. I agree it is a good idea to get some CD vaccine (overeating) into the calves at birth. You could also vaccinate the cow a few weeks before calving and some immunity would be passed on that way.

I'd give another clostridial shot at branding and if you desire, the first round of IBR/BVD/BRSV/PI3/pastueurella, and H Somnus. Do these again in the fall.

Again, I wouldn't get hung up on brand names. Get the proper combination of products that will do the job for you most economically. Your vet may very well have the best deal.

A word about modified live virus vaccines. If your cows are pregnant and are current on their own annual vaccinations, you can safely vaccinate her nursing calf with most MLV vaccines. Read the labels.

IMO, MLV vaccines offer "better bang for the buck" than killed vaccines. The catch is, MLV vaccine is not to be used in unvaccinated pregnant cows or calves nursing pregnant cows. When in doubt, don't!

If there is any question that the pregnant cow nursing a calf is current on her own vaccinations, use a killed virus vaccine on the nursing calf.

I tend to agree with your vet on water vs oil based vaccines. Alpha 7 is probably THE most effective one-shot clostridial vaccine out there. But it is oil based and I've had A7 leave some nasty bumps at the injection site.

Water based vaccines are much more "tissue friendly" but you might have to give 2 or 3 vaccinations to equal the protection of one shot of the oil based vaccine.

So it really is up to you. IMO, if you're only going to have one chance to work the calves go with the stout oil based vaccine. If your going to be working calves again anyway, use the water based vaccine.

And aways give all shots in the neck area either subcutaneously or intramuscularly as directed. :2cents:

 

[jerry27150]

I don't vaccinate til 2-3 months of age, then all get virashield 6 & covexin 8

 

[Lucky_P]

roger,
Recent (in the last 10 years or so) investigations have pretty effectively demonstrated that maternal antibodies really don't interfere with a calf's ability to respond to most of the vaccines that we typically use in cattle. So, you can pretty well vaccinate at any time - though it does seem that a calf's immune function kind of 'bottoms out' between days 3-7 after birth - so, if you want good response to vaccines, you should avoid that short window of time.
C&D - it's in the polyvalent Clostridial bacterin/toxoids; here, blackleg/malignant edema is a bigger concern, so I'm gonna use the polyvalent product and cover all bases - then booster 4 weeks or so later. This would cut out one extra trip through the chute for you.
But, I'm not in your locality, and your veterinarian is...so I'll readily defer to his/her experience.

I'm not absolutely hung up on brand names - but!!! Some manufacturers have gone the extra mile to PROVE that their products are effective; others may function just as well, but they've not invested the time and $$ in field trials to be able to make a higher-tier label claim, such as 'prevents infection', as opposed to 'aids in prevention of disease', etc.

http://beef.msu.edu/Resources/Health/Un ... fault.aspx

 

[branguscowgirl]

[quoteRecent (in the last 10 years or so) investigations have pretty effectively demonstrated that maternal antibodies really don't interfere with a calf's ability to respond to most of the vaccines that we typically use in cattle. So, you can pretty well vaccinate at any time - though it does seem that a calf's immune function kind of 'bottoms out' between days 3-7 after birth - so, if you want good response to vaccines, you should avoid that short window of time. ][/quote]


Thank you LuckyP. This is new news to me and good to know!

 

[rogergreaves]

Thanks all for the replies.

I'm not really hung up on brand names. I just started with one and realized they didn't have everything I need and didn't know if I could switch without going through the whole series. Pfizer might in fact have everything, I'm just not aware of it. I've been ordering from Valley Vet and looking in the cooler at Big R. Part of my problem is that I don't know the Latin names on the label and their conversion to common names. For instance the following vaccine, a one shot from Pfizer says in the description on the web site that it covers "pasteurella" but the label says nothing about "pasteurella." But I think Mannheimia Haemolytica Bacterin is the Latin name and this vaccine does cover it.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... e5&gas=one shot

 

[bmoore87]

Yep they are the same. Mannheimia is just the knew name for it and it has some of the newer vaccine formulations.

" just started with one and realized they didn't have everything I need and didn't know if I could switch without going through the whole series"

If they cover for different illnesses you would need to start the series over if the vaccine requires a booster. I

 

[bse]

If i read it right you are vaccinating some while synchronizing them for A I, I would get that done 30 days prior to starting sync or at least 21 days and let them cycle before starting.