Another one...

[msscamp]

I separated him today so's I could watch him. I was wrong about him not limping, cause he's got a slight limp as he walks, and he was licking at the lump too so obviously it's pretty sore. Abcesses aren't really sorespots now are they? If not, then I'm thinking now he's got a haemotoma. Still haven't felt it yet, but that's my guess.

Now I'm asking about treatment for it...?

It is my understanding that a hematoma is simply a very bad bruise that has caused bleeding under the skin. The worse the damage, the heavier the bleeding. Unless it develops some kind of complication - and I have no idea what that would/could be - the blood will be reabsorbed as the bruise heals, and the hematoma disappears. A good example of a hematoma would be mashing your thumb, and the blood accumulating under the nail.

As far as abcesses go, and if I'm being too basic here, I apologize. An abcess forms in response to a small (usually - but I've also seen abcesses form around grubs and other things, too) foreign body (such as a sticker, splinter, thorn, etc.) being introduced - usually under the skin - that the skin then heals up and closes around. The body recognizes the object as being foreign, and 'walls' off the area to prevent spreading, and then summons white blood cells to fight it and kill it. They die after a certain period of time(I can't remember how long), and become the pus, then more white blood cells are rallied to the area to replace the dead ones. Because the site is walled off, there is no where for them to go, so they collect and cause the lump/bump seen on the outside. Abcesses can start out hard, but they turn soft and squishy as pus accumulates. They can also be very, very sore! Think of how your finger feels when you get a splinter and it festers - that is basically an abcess, but on a very small scale. I hope this helps explain the difference between the two. Again, it is not my intent to insult you or anything, just to help you understand.

 

[sidney411]

...because if you introduce bacteria via your needle it will become an abscess if it isn't already. Worse still if you introduce bacteria into the joint....

Yes, but if you use a sterile needle and clean the insertion site with alchocol or iodine, ect, wouldn't the chance of infection do to the needle stick outweigh the benefit of knowing if it is an abcess that needs to be drained?

 

[bward]

Looks like an injection abcess to me. The whole package of pus just fell with gravity. You got some good advice on how to treat it in previous posts. Do the injection aspiration to make sure it is pus, then if so, make about an inch cut in the hide and squish out the creamy goo. Then flush it with a few syringe fulls ( with no needle attached) of warm water, then give an appropriate dose of pennicillin.

 

[Alan]

...because if you introduce bacteria via your needle it will become an abscess if it isn't already. Worse still if you introduce bacteria into the joint....

Yes, but if you use a sterile needle and clean the insertion site with alchocol or iodine, ect, wouldn't the chance of infection do to the needle stick outweigh the benefit of knowing if it is an abcess that needs to be drained?

I hate to disagree with, I assume and still do, a bovine vet, but we stick needles in livestock all the time without abscess's being created. I agree to clean the area with rubbing alchol and use a sterile needle. If you don't stick you don't know.

Alan

 

[Alan]

MS,

I may be wrong but I'm under the impression that a hematoma is a void or a seperation of the skin from the muscle and the area fills with blood, a bruise is a bleeding in the muscle. If you lance a hematoma you should get blood. If it was an abscess and you lance it you would get puss. A high temp would also run with an abscess since it is an infection. as mentioned before I would only give pen if the animal has a temp and it's an abscess.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Sorry for switchin back and forth from one thing to another, but from what MsScamp's telling me, now I'm getting more and more convinced that it's another abcess. Still haven't run him through, I'm waiting for Dad to do that (he's in the city running some errands today btw), although...

Thanks for clearing that up for me MsS.

 

[cowvet]

I NEVER said not to stick a needle in it...but I did stress the importance of being STERILE if you do (splashing a bit of alcohol at it is not good enough in my book - you need to be absolutely/guaranteed sterile if introducing a needle into an unknown lump). That lump looks to be over a joint area - if you stab into a joint and introduce bacteria you will have trouble.

 

[cowvet]

I separated him today so's I could watch him. I was wrong about him not limping, cause he's got a slight limp as he walks, and he was licking at the lump too so obviously it's pretty sore. Abcesses aren't really sorespots now are they? If not, then I'm thinking now he's got a haemotoma. Still haven't felt it yet, but that's my guess.

Now I'm asking about treatment for it...?

It is my understanding that a hematoma is simply a very bad bruise that has caused bleeding under the skin. The worse the damage, the heavier the bleeding. Unless it develops some kind of complication - and I have no idea what that would/could be - the blood will be reabsorbed as the bruise heals, and the hematoma disappears. A good example of a hematoma would be mashing your thumb, and the blood accumulating under the nail.

As far as abcesses go, and if I'm being too basic here, I apologize. An abcess forms in response to a small (usually - but I've also seen abcesses form around grubs and other things, too) foreign body (such as a sticker, splinter, thorn, etc.) being introduced - usually under the skin - that the skin then heals up and closes around. The body recognizes the object as being foreign, and 'walls' off the area to prevent spreading, and then summons white blood cells to fight it and kill it. They die after a certain period of time(I can't remember how long), and become the pus, then more white blood cells are rallied to the area to replace the dead ones. Because the site is walled off, there is no where for them to go, so they collect and cause the lump/bump seen on the outside. Abcesses can start out hard, but they turn soft and squishy as pus accumulates. They can also be very, very sore! Think of how your finger feels when you get a splinter and it festers - that is basically an abcess, but on a very small scale. I hope this helps explain the difference between the two. Again, it is not my intent to insult you or anything, just to help you understand.

Abscesses do not have to have a foreign body involved - a liver abscess does not have a foreign body involved. An abscess is a bacteria infection - anytime bacteria isolate into on area and accumulate you will get an abscess - they can get there via the blood stream (as in a liver abscess or lung abscess). In an isolated large abscess it is often associated with the introduction of bacteria via a penetration wound - but the abscessation process is NOT dependant on a piece of foreign material (other than the bacteria) being present.

 

[msscamp]

MS,

I may be wrong but I'm under the impression that a hematoma is a void or a seperation of the skin from the muscle and the area fills with blood, a bruise is a bleeding in the muscle. If you lance a hematoma you should get blood. If it was an abscess and you lance it you would get puss. A high temp would also run with an abscess since it is an infection. as mentioned before I would only give pen if the animal has a temp and it's an abscess.

Alan, a hematoma can be either one. The high fever would depend on the abcess - we've had some that had no fever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematoma


IluvABbeef, you're welcome. I was really afraid I was going to insult you or something, I'm glad that is not the case.

 

[msscamp]

I separated him today so's I could watch him. I was wrong about him not limping, cause he's got a slight limp as he walks, and he was licking at the lump too so obviously it's pretty sore. Abcesses aren't really sorespots now are they? If not, then I'm thinking now he's got a haemotoma. Still haven't felt it yet, but that's my guess.

Now I'm asking about treatment for it...?

It is my understanding that a hematoma is simply a very bad bruise that has caused bleeding under the skin. The worse the damage, the heavier the bleeding. Unless it develops some kind of complication - and I have no idea what that would/could be - the blood will be reabsorbed as the bruise heals, and the hematoma disappears. A good example of a hematoma would be mashing your thumb, and the blood accumulating under the nail.

As far as abcesses go, and if I'm being too basic here, I apologize. An abcess forms in response to a small (usually - but I've also seen abcesses form around grubs and other things, too) foreign body (such as a sticker, splinter, thorn, etc.) being introduced - usually under the skin - that the skin then heals up and closes around. The body recognizes the object as being foreign, and 'walls' off the area to prevent spreading, and then summons white blood cells to fight it and kill it. They die after a certain period of time(I can't remember how long), and become the pus, then more white blood cells are rallied to the area to replace the dead ones. Because the site is walled off, there is no where for them to go, so they collect and cause the lump/bump seen on the outside. Abcesses can start out hard, but they turn soft and squishy as pus accumulates. They can also be very, very sore! Think of how your finger feels when you get a splinter and it festers - that is basically an abcess, but on a very small scale. I hope this helps explain the difference between the two. Again, it is not my intent to insult you or anything, just to help you understand.

Abscesses do not have to have a foreign body involved - a liver abscess does not have a foreign body involved. An abscess is a bacteria infection - anytime bacteria isolate into on area and accumulate you will get an abscess - they can get there via the blood stream (as in a liver abscess or lung abscess). In an isolated large abscess it is often associated with the introduction of bacteria via a penetration wound - but the abscessation process is NOT dependant on a piece of foreign material (other than the bacteria) being present.

I am fully aware of that. It did not pertain to this particular thread, do I did not see the need to mention it.

 

[IluvABbeef]

All right everyone, Dad finally ran him through, and it turns out that he DOES have an abcess. The lump had that soft, mushy feel to it, and there was stuff leaking out of it just like the previous steer had (on the jaw).

Dad didn't touch it (lance it or anything) for fear of introducting infection, so he just gave him a shot of LA and sent him back with the other 5 to keep an eye on him.

So, with that, looks like everything is all good.