Angus bull to add frame
- Thread starter joe
- Start date
this guy might http://www.semex.com/di/beef/semex.cgi? ... 68302181TX
Several of the First Edition Associates have bred hfrs to Hoff First Edition 058 242 and to my knowledge there has been no calving problems. Most of the calves that I know of are in rhe mid 70's to low 80's. Personally we have had calves weighing as low as 68 lb to as high as 94 lb.WORANCH":gqxcv8qs said:
I am not scared of breeding first calf hfrs to him at all.
Any questions, please PM me.
A quick look at the available info shows First Edition started out with a BW epd of 2.2 that has moved to a 4.9 with a .90 accuracy. He also ratioed 104 on birth when he was born. He certainly appears to have the size you want and plenty of gas on the grow deal but I'd go easy on the heifers til you prove to yourself that your heifers can handle him. Much better to wish you had used him more than the other way (used him too much). Select has a few that are calving ease with 6.5 to 7.0 frame. Might take a look there for some possibilities. Good Luck.
Nebraska Sandhills
Well-known member
http://www.bullbarn.com/angblkepd.asp?ID=671
reg.# 13971590
noticed him the other day looking through possible AI Bulls
BW +.9 WW +60 YW +126 YH +1.0 MLK +31
haven't used him, but looks like he would add some frame and give you some growthy calves as well. JMO
reg.# 13971590
noticed him the other day looking through possible AI Bulls
BW +.9 WW +60 YW +126 YH +1.0 MLK +31
haven't used him, but looks like he would add some frame and give you some growthy calves as well. JMO
joe":3p4gn957 said:
Summitcrest Hi Flyer (PFred) - an ABS bull. About as reliable calving ease as you can find. Depending on the size of your cattle, he'll add some frame. He was 61 inches tall as a mature bull for a mature frame score of 7.5.
Rustler9
Well-known member
This is off the subject but if anyone would answer it I'd appreciate it. I don't know much about Simmentals but I was looking on the bullbarn link in this post at the Red Sims and everyone of them has Black Simmental Sire listed at the top of their picture. Does that mean that they all came out of black bulls? Do all Simmental blood lines have black in them now? Just curious. Thanks.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
I don't disagree that care must be taken in breeding heifers to bulls with high birth weights, but a lot has to do with the size of the heifer's, and their own birth weight EPD. If you carefully analyse ALL of the EPD's of Hoff First Edition, you might consider using him on your mature cows, AND some of your good sized heifers. Here is a bull with the kind of phenotype that will build herds, along with muscle and light birth weight. Our Angus Cattle Herd nationally, in My Humble Opinion, is getting into deep trouble with losing size, growth and MUSCLE! That is the primary reason that Angus is in trouble with lacking hindquarter thickness and muscle, and Hoff First Edition has the size to overcome that problem with his calves. This is an opportunity for a breeder to really select his cow herd and use this bull to stabilize his Replacements for increased growth, muscle and soundness and put his cattle operation on a Profitable basis for many years! Just be very selective with the heifer's you breed to him. And his Milk EPD at 23 is right in line with what I think is optimal.glover36":36ltcvam said:
Matings with a bull like First Edition is where a good breeder can really use his head and improve his cow herd, by carefully MATCHING the cows he uses to the Sire. If the Angus breeders continue to follow the "Funnel Butt" traits that a lot of them are doing, it is going to be another "Train Wreck " like the 50's and 60's, and take another 25 years to get back to common sense breeding!
Give some pretty deep thought to your BU$INE$$!
DOC HARRIS
Nebraska Sandhills
Well-known member
good thoughts Doc Harris, but i guess im young and curious. What would be your feelings with using a lower birth EPD bull on the first calf heifers and then maybe using a bull such as First Edition after the heifers have had one calf and you know kind of what they can handle as cows? Surely as Brandonm2 stated there is another angus heifer bull out there with a more acceptable BW EPD for heifers that can still provide the muscle and growth you speak of? If you are familiar with the breeding of a bull such as First Edition and kind of have an idea of what his calves will weigh at birth, you could probably use with confidence, but if you haven't really used a particular bull or bloodline and don't know how it will cross with your own breeding stock, i think you would just be sitting yourself up for a very avoidable and yet very possible disaster breeding to a bull with a upper 4 BW EPD. A dead calf sure isn't what I would call improving your herd or making your operation more profitable. If joe, the original poster of this thread is wanting to add some frame, I would guess that his heifers are probably not the good sized heifers you speak of and he would still be better off in the long run using a low birth weight, high accuracy, proven heifer bull. JMO FWIW
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Neb. Sandhills-
I don't have an argument with your ideas at all! I addressed that thought in the first two or three sentences of my post. This kind of breeding situation presents itself in almost every season in a breeder's life, and it just exemplifies why it is important to KNOW all of your own herd, and what you can proceed with in manipulating your matings for your benefit.
Yes, I recommend that if you have average size heifers (What is AVERAGE??) and are concerned about the possibility of having calving problems, absolutely use a bull with the potential of not creating problems. My contention in ALL herd management decisions is _ KNOW YOUR CATTLE LIKE THE BACK OF YOUR HAND, and act accordingly. Because it takes three years from breeding to realization of what a second generation decision will prove, we all want to 'hurry things up' as much as possible, but breeding good cattle just takes the time that it takes. That is why you want to be sure that you don't make a mistake if you can avoid it.
DOC HARRIS
I don't have an argument with your ideas at all! I addressed that thought in the first two or three sentences of my post. This kind of breeding situation presents itself in almost every season in a breeder's life, and it just exemplifies why it is important to KNOW all of your own herd, and what you can proceed with in manipulating your matings for your benefit.
Yes, I recommend that if you have average size heifers (What is AVERAGE??) and are concerned about the possibility of having calving problems, absolutely use a bull with the potential of not creating problems. My contention in ALL herd management decisions is _ KNOW YOUR CATTLE LIKE THE BACK OF YOUR HAND, and act accordingly. Because it takes three years from breeding to realization of what a second generation decision will prove, we all want to 'hurry things up' as much as possible, but breeding good cattle just takes the time that it takes. That is why you want to be sure that you don't make a mistake if you can avoid it.
DOC HARRIS
Dun, how can that Hoff bull have such a low BW EPD, with Pine Drive at a +6.5 on top? After my wreck breeding heifers to I87, I have less faith in the EPD's.
Joe, I am using RCC Preference this year on some heifers. He is a P'Fred son, and my 'Freds are all atleast a 7 frame score. I bred the P'Freds to WAR Alliance last spring and will be calving in about 3 weeks. I believe SAF Focus, Top Dollar, and Bulls Eye are all calving ease with some frame to them, but I think the semen may be high for use in commercial cattle. Check Semex catalog, I believe they are in there.
Joe, I am using RCC Preference this year on some heifers. He is a P'Fred son, and my 'Freds are all atleast a 7 frame score. I bred the P'Freds to WAR Alliance last spring and will be calving in about 3 weeks. I believe SAF Focus, Top Dollar, and Bulls Eye are all calving ease with some frame to them, but I think the semen may be high for use in commercial cattle. Check Semex catalog, I believe they are in there.
I would use RCC PREFERENCE, ABS carries semen on him $20,
I have not used him to date but,I have spoke with two of his owners and they are very pleased with his calves. Mature wt is 2600 lbs. his calves come easy (-2.2 BW) and they said he puts a lot of capacity, length, and the calves are very smooth.
He is a son of Pfred with whom i have used for CE and have been extremely pleased in the performace of his calves.
blk mule
I have not used him to date but,I have spoke with two of his owners and they are very pleased with his calves. Mature wt is 2600 lbs. his calves come easy (-2.2 BW) and they said he puts a lot of capacity, length, and the calves are very smooth.
He is a son of Pfred with whom i have used for CE and have been extremely pleased in the performace of his calves.
blk mule
Dee":147iz0wj said:
Dee, I know you had a problem with heifers bred to I87, but how are his calves looking now? We've been thinking about him but haven't seen any calves and don't know anyone around here using him.
