Our chapter has a reg. angus herd of around 40 or so mother cows that have been bred for strict calving ease year after year for a long time. This breeding philosophy has led to masculine females and feminine bulls and extreme loss of quality in the herds offspring. The herd has became a small framed and overall non functional group of cattle. We A.I. a majority of the cattle each year to ABS bulls usually. What bulls could fix the problems that are presented and maintain calving ease ? Thank you all in advance !
Angus Bull Suggestions
- Thread starter cemerson
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I had a long post typed out, deleted it because did not want to offend someone. So, I will just post some thoughts from many years of owning cattle.
Use bulls that do not look like heifers. So many of the current AI Angus bulls do not look like bulls. Number two, stop using extreme calving ease bulls. Mature cows do not need breed leading calving ease bulls, if they do then down the road they need to go.
Use bulls that do not look like heifers. So many of the current AI Angus bulls do not look like bulls. Number two, stop using extreme calving ease bulls. Mature cows do not need breed leading calving ease bulls, if they do then down the road they need to go.
jscunn
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Where are you located? Environment plays a big part in what bulls would work for you..
Turkeybird
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Sell those cows to someone who wants some small frame stuff and buy some more, or put a terminal bull on the matures. Just a thought not saying it's the gospel my friend
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Are they inbred?
Sounds like a school, FFA maybe? Get the library to do an inter-library loan on the Bonsma Lectures and let the chapter or the beef group study that for several weeks. You can change what you have but you have to have a target.
Sounds like a school, FFA maybe? Get the library to do an inter-library loan on the Bonsma Lectures and let the chapter or the beef group study that for several weeks. You can change what you have but you have to have a target.
My :2cents: when you look at breed averages for the Angus breed
http://www.angus.org/Nce/BreedAverageEPDs.aspx
The breed average for birth is very low. The problem with this is you continue to stack low birth weigh year after year your going to end up with a problem. To try to explain consider the following:
Heifer bred in 2016 to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2016-A
in 2017 you breed 2016-A to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2017-A
in 2018 you breed 2017-A to a low BW Angus bull she has a 30 pound dink and you ask yourself why......read line one and two of the example. Low BW typically equates to smaller shorter gestation calves stack it over several years and you have an issue. A first calf heifer should be able to have a 75 to 80 pound calf, we breed in hopes of a 65 to 70 pound calf. I am not afraid to use a bull with a positive BW EPD of 2.5 and have used up to a 3.0 BW EPD but knew both the sire and dam of the bull. If we don't get a handle on this it is going to bite the breed in the butt.
Just one old grey haired ladies opinion.
gizmom
http://www.angus.org/Nce/BreedAverageEPDs.aspx
The breed average for birth is very low. The problem with this is you continue to stack low birth weigh year after year your going to end up with a problem. To try to explain consider the following:
Heifer bred in 2016 to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2016-A
in 2017 you breed 2016-A to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2017-A
in 2018 you breed 2017-A to a low BW Angus bull she has a 30 pound dink and you ask yourself why......read line one and two of the example. Low BW typically equates to smaller shorter gestation calves stack it over several years and you have an issue. A first calf heifer should be able to have a 75 to 80 pound calf, we breed in hopes of a 65 to 70 pound calf. I am not afraid to use a bull with a positive BW EPD of 2.5 and have used up to a 3.0 BW EPD but knew both the sire and dam of the bull. If we don't get a handle on this it is going to bite the breed in the butt.
Just one old grey haired ladies opinion.
gizmom
HDRider
Well-known member
I was talking to a vet that shows cattle and he said Angus has gone too far already.gizmom":3fceixpw said:
Son of Butch
Well-known member
As Doc Harris would have said... Never do single trait selection, look at the entire profile for BALANCED cattle.cemerson":1ghbhu1x said:
Bunch of Father Farms Alone dipsticks. Who's your fearless leaders? Some old Hippies running a commune?
Those that can do, those that can't teach and those that can't do or teach become FFA advisors.
Pinko commies trying to ruin American cattle, in what part of California are you located or has that disease spread to other states?
p.s.
just a minor attempt at humor
wbvs58
Well-known member
This is how Lowline cattle were developed. They were a closed herd of Angus cattle at a research station in Australia. I am not sure what they were selecting for but the small cattle was not intentional is my understanding.
Ken
Ken
Are there any specific bulls that you all think can help the problem, maybe some high acc. proven bulls that will add frame size and pounds but that can be bred to cattle that have calving ease stacked in their pedigree for generations. To answer the environment question we are in the southeast.
jscunn
Well-known member
cemerson,
I am not being evasive, but I don't have an ABS catalog. Here is my suggestion. Find a bull with these qualities
1. Yearling Frame Score of 6.0 or larger (prefer 6.5 Frame Score)
2. Yearling weight of 1350 + lbs.
3. BW EPD of more than +1.0
4. Location of the breeder that is "close" to your location. (Environment)
Believe it or not I think I just narrowed your list considerably. (less than 10 bulls) Let us know what you find.
You said you are looking for performance then go find a performance bull. He may or may not have growth EPDs in the top 10% but he will have the individual performance you are looking for. I would be happy to answer questions about your findings..
I am not being evasive, but I don't have an ABS catalog. Here is my suggestion. Find a bull with these qualities
1. Yearling Frame Score of 6.0 or larger (prefer 6.5 Frame Score)
2. Yearling weight of 1350 + lbs.
3. BW EPD of more than +1.0
4. Location of the breeder that is "close" to your location. (Environment)
Believe it or not I think I just narrowed your list considerably. (less than 10 bulls) Let us know what you find.
You said you are looking for performance then go find a performance bull. He may or may not have growth EPDs in the top 10% but he will have the individual performance you are looking for. I would be happy to answer questions about your findings..
