• If you are having problems logging in please use the Contact Us in the lower right hand corner of the forum page for assistance.

Angus Bull Suggestions

Help Support CattleToday:

cemerson

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Our chapter has a reg. angus herd of around 40 or so mother cows that have been bred for strict calving ease year after year for a long time. This breeding philosophy has led to masculine females and feminine bulls and extreme loss of quality in the herds offspring. The herd has became a small framed and overall non functional group of cattle. We A.I. a majority of the cattle each year to ABS bulls usually. What bulls could fix the problems that are presented and maintain calving ease ? Thank you all in advance !
 

Davemk

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
230
Reaction score
2
I had a long post typed out, deleted it because did not want to offend someone. So, I will just post some thoughts from many years of owning cattle.
Use bulls that do not look like heifers. So many of the current AI Angus bulls do not look like bulls. Number two, stop using extreme calving ease bulls. Mature cows do not need breed leading calving ease bulls, if they do then down the road they need to go.
 

Turkeybird

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Messages
231
Reaction score
0
Sell those cows to someone who wants some small frame stuff and buy some more, or put a terminal bull on the matures. Just a thought not saying it's the gospel my friend
 

Ebenezer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
2,040
Reaction score
6
Location
Piedmont of SC
Are they inbred?

Sounds like a school, FFA maybe? Get the library to do an inter-library loan on the Bonsma Lectures and let the chapter or the beef group study that for several weeks. You can change what you have but you have to have a target.
 

gizmom

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
3,291
Reaction score
0
Location
Molino Florida
My :2cents: when you look at breed averages for the Angus breed

http://www.angus.org/Nce/BreedAverageEPDs.aspx

The breed average for birth is very low. The problem with this is you continue to stack low birth weigh year after year your going to end up with a problem. To try to explain consider the following:

Heifer bred in 2016 to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2016-A
in 2017 you breed 2016-A to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2017-A
in 2018 you breed 2017-A to a low BW Angus bull she has a 30 pound dink and you ask yourself why......read line one and two of the example. Low BW typically equates to smaller shorter gestation calves stack it over several years and you have an issue. A first calf heifer should be able to have a 75 to 80 pound calf, we breed in hopes of a 65 to 70 pound calf. I am not afraid to use a bull with a positive BW EPD of 2.5 and have used up to a 3.0 BW EPD but knew both the sire and dam of the bull. If we don't get a handle on this it is going to bite the breed in the butt.

Just one old grey haired ladies opinion.

gizmom
 

HDRider

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 25, 2011
Messages
5,417
Reaction score
8
Location
NE Arkansas
gizmom":3fceixpw said:
My :2cents: when you look at breed averages for the Angus breed

http://www.angus.org/Nce/BreedAverageEPDs.aspx

The breed average for birth is very low. The problem with this is you continue to stack low birth weigh year after year your going to end up with a problem. To try to explain consider the following:

Heifer bred in 2016 to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2016-A
in 2017 you breed 2016-A to a low BW Angus bull, she has a heifer calf 2017-A
in 2018 you breed 2017-A to a low BW Angus bull she has a 30 pound dink and you ask yourself why......read line one and two of the example. Low BW typically equates to smaller shorter gestation calves stack it over several years and you have an issue. A first calf heifer should be able to have a 75 to 80 pound calf, we breed in hopes of a 65 to 70 pound calf. I am not afraid to use a bull with a positive BW EPD of 2.5 and have used up to a 3.0 BW EPD but knew both the sire and dam of the bull. If we don't get a handle on this it is going to bite the breed in the butt.

Just one old grey haired ladies opinion.

gizmom
I was talking to a vet that shows cattle and he said Angus has gone too far already.
 

Son of Butch

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
6,411
Reaction score
29
Location
Frost Bite Falls, Minnesota
cemerson":1ghbhu1x said:
Our chapter has a reg. angus herd of around 40 or so mother cows that have been bred for strict calving ease year after year for a long time. This breeding philosophy...
As Doc Harris would have said... Never do single trait selection, look at the entire profile for BALANCED cattle.

Bunch of Father Farms Alone dipsticks. Who's your fearless leaders? Some old Hippies running a commune?
Those that can do, those that can't teach and those that can't do or teach become FFA advisors.
Pinko commies trying to ruin American cattle, in what part of California are you located or has that disease spread to other states? :)




p.s.
just a minor attempt at humor
 

wbvs58

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
5,203
Reaction score
31
Location
S.E. Queensland, Australia
This is how Lowline cattle were developed. They were a closed herd of Angus cattle at a research station in Australia. I am not sure what they were selecting for but the small cattle was not intentional is my understanding.

Ken
 

cemerson

New member
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Are there any specific bulls that you all think can help the problem, maybe some high acc. proven bulls that will add frame size and pounds but that can be bred to cattle that have calving ease stacked in their pedigree for generations. To answer the environment question we are in the southeast.
 

jscunn

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
8
Location
Northwest Florida
cemerson,
I am not being evasive, but I don't have an ABS catalog. Here is my suggestion. Find a bull with these qualities
1. Yearling Frame Score of 6.0 or larger (prefer 6.5 Frame Score)
2. Yearling weight of 1350 + lbs.
3. BW EPD of more than +1.0
4. Location of the breeder that is "close" to your location. (Environment)

Believe it or not I think I just narrowed your list considerably. (less than 10 bulls) Let us know what you find.

You said you are looking for performance then go find a performance bull. He may or may not have growth EPDs in the top 10% but he will have the individual performance you are looking for. I would be happy to answer questions about your findings..
 
Top