Anecdotal Pinkeye Experience

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kenny thomas said:
I agree it may not be needed in every case but I especially use it in calves I'm gonna sell. The difference I see is much less pinkeye scars afterwards. If you were selling a registered bull or heifer wouldn't a pinkeye scar hurt the sale?

It would. I think why my circumstances are different is as follows:

I see my cattle daily. Especially the replacement heifers, seedstock heifers and bulls. They are all halter broke. I have always caught pinkeye in the phase when there is just a small white cloud - rarely larger than a dime. I can get one in a chute in no more than 30 minutes. I wash the infected eye with a bicarbonate of soda solution in a spray bottle to flush out the debris. Then administer a systemic antibiotic. They have all fully recovered with no scars.
 
All, with regard to the subconjunctival injections - whether administered 'properly' under the thin conjunctival membrane covering the sclera(white part) of the eyeball - or 'incorrectly', as when folks just inject it into the eyelid - I think both are outdated (bordering on bogus) treatments, and that as soon as the medication injected stops leaking out of the needle prick hole, it's no more effective than if you'd injected that 2 or 3 cc of stuff into the hindquarters of the animal. Far better, in my opinion, to give an appropriate dosage of a systemic antimicrobial that is known to reach therapeutic levels in the tear film... like oxytetracycline(LA-200/300) or Draxxin - that way, the eye is constantly bathed in a treatment-level dose of the drug for 2-3 days.
Anything you squirt in the eye (nitrofurazone powder, mastitis medication, WD-40(wince), salt, etc.)is going to be washed out within 20 minutes, just by normal tear production... probably even faster with the increased tearing that accompanies pinkeye. If you wouldn't put it in your own eye... don't put it in your cows'.
I'm still extremely skeptical about the Vetericyn products... looking at their MSDS sheets, they're really nothing more than a VERY dilute chlorine bleach solution in 'electrolyzed' water. Sure not worth $30 a quart(or is it $30/pint?), IMO. But, I guess they don't harm anything... other than your pocketbook.

Now, on to distrust of 'drug company vets'... I'm not sure what your (generic you) mindset is on this, but I believe it's misplaced. I've known and worked with - as a large animal practitioner, academician, and beef producer - a number of tech services and research veterinarians at Pfizer/Zoetis, Boehringer-Ingleheim, etc., for years, and have personal relationships with some going back 40+ years to our undergraduate study years. I have confidence in them - they're not just 'out to sell more of their own product'... they'll tell you, straight up, if their product doesn't work, or if another company's is better - their parent company may not like that, but all that I know are straight shooters.
Additionally, some of the most useful research that's been done in recent years, with regard to optimizing immune response in cattle, and minimizing adverse reactions/interactions between various vaccine components has come from the work of these 'drug company vets', many of whom have gone to the industry from academia - and now have the $$$ resources at their disposal to do important studies that are helpful to us in the livestock production sector that just don't happen at the universities, due to a host of issues, most relating back to funding.
 
kenny thomas said:
I agree it may not be needed in every case but I especially use it in calves I'm gonna sell. The difference I see is much less pinkeye scars afterwards. If you were selling a registered bull or heifer wouldn't a pinkeye scar hurt the sale?

The scarring does matter in especially in graded sales like the bred heifer sale that we sell in. Regardless of overall quality of the heifer, if it has scarring on the eye it is rejected from the sale.
I have seen many groups of feeder calves sell at auction, with one or more individuals with very noticeable scarring and most times it doesn't seem to matter then. The single calves that have much scarring are usually docked significantly. One of the frustrations I have had over the years, is when buying heifers to resell as breds, is to pay a premium price for them, through the ring only to get them home and find that some have scarring on the eyes.
 
Lucky_P said:
All, with regard to the subconjunctival injections - whether administered 'properly' under the thin conjunctival membrane covering the sclera(white part) of the eyeball - or 'incorrectly', as when folks just inject it into the eyelid - I think both are outdated (bordering on bogus) treatments, and that as soon as the medication injected stops leaking out of the needle be nice hole, it's no more effective than if you'd injected that 2 or 3 cc of stuff into the hindquarters of the animal. Far better, in my opinion, to give an appropriate dosage of a systemic antimicrobial that is known to reach therapeutic levels in the tear film... like oxytetracycline(LA-200/300) or Draxxin - that way, the eye is constantly bathed in a treatment-level dose of the drug for 2-3 days.
Anything you squirt in the eye (nitrofurazone powder, mastitis medication, WD-40(wince), salt, etc.)is going to be washed out within 20 minutes, just by normal tear production... probably even faster with the increased tearing that accompanies pinkeye. If you wouldn't put it in your own eye... don't put it in your cows'.
I'm still extremely skeptical about the Vetericyn products... looking at their MSDS sheets, they're really nothing more than a VERY dilute chlorine bleach solution in 'electrolyzed' water. Sure not worth $30 a quart(or is it $30/pint?), IMO. But, I guess they don't harm anything... other than your pocketbook.

Now, on to distrust of 'drug company vets'... I'm not sure what your (generic you) mindset is on this, but I believe it's misplaced. I've known and worked with - as a large animal practitioner, academician, and beef producer - a number of tech services and research veterinarians at Pfizer/Zoetis, Boehringer-Ingleheim, etc., for years, and have personal relationships with some going back 40+ years to our undergraduate study years. I have confidence in them - they're not just 'out to sell more of their own product'... they'll tell you, straight up, if their product doesn't work, or if another company's is better - their parent company may not like that, but all that I know are straight shooters.
Additionally, some of the most useful research that's been done in recent years, with regard to optimizing immune response in cattle, and minimizing adverse reactions/interactions between various vaccine components has come from the work of these 'drug company vets', many of whom have gone to the industry from academia - and now have the $$$ resources at their disposal to do important studies that are helpful to us in the livestock production sector that just don't happen at the universities, due to a host of issues, most relating back to funding.

Maybe outdated to some but the treatment works with a very small dose of antibiotics ( As compared to 5cc per 100 lbs of tetracyclines) and as Mr. Kenny says, leaves less scarring. Hard to argue with tried and true success I would think.
 
Bright Raven said:
kenny thomas said:
Bright Raven said:
Quoted from Lucky_P . He was responding to a question from Kenny in a previous thread about 2 years ago.

"kenny. 
I'm not convinced that the subconjunctival injections do anything once the needle-(puncture) seals over (in just a few minutes) and the injected antibiotic stops leaking out. In my mind... better to go with a systemic drug so that its presence in the tear film is essentially 'bathing' the eye constantly... until therapeutic drug levels tail off."
BR, I think he was responding to putting the meds in the 3rd eyelid. I'm putting it behind the outer membrane of the eyeball right where the pinkeye is active.

The tissue on the outer surface of the eye is the sclera. Are you going under that? To go further, if you see a white area in the area of the cornea, do you insert the needle right under that white area? I can certainly see why you use an immobilizer. I am assuming that Gcreekranch is doing a subconjunctival shot.

While we have used Excenel and Dex as a subcon. injection. Long acting pen in the membrane over the white part of the upper eyeball has had far better success in treatment.

I halter the animal in the squeeze and tie the head as mentioned. Have treated dozens in this manner by myself. Other than one year 30 years back pinkeye hasn't been an issue here to speak of.
 
LA 300 and a Shut-Eye patch is what they get here. Works 100% of the time. Only time they get a scar is when they have been severely ulcerated - on the verge of bursting. Patch comes off in a few weeks and all is good.

I sure don't miss the days of giving needles in the eye. Patching is far easier and by doing so you are cutting off a source of further herd contamination via flies.
 
Anybody else having trouble finding LA 300? Local animal health supplier said the FDA shut the plant down for not sanitizing bottles before bottling the antibiotic. No one knows when LA 300 will be available again.
Great timing, right?
 
Chocolate Cow2 said:
Anybody else having trouble finding LA 300? Local animal health supplier said the FDA shut the plant down for not sanitizing bottles before bottling the antibiotic. No one knows when LA 300 will be available again.
Great timing, right?

All of the injectable oxytetracyclines have been on backorder for a couple of months. It's going to be a while.
 
Does anyone have any issues treating with injection antibiotics with short pregnancies? Is there a range y'all avoid giving injection antibiotics if possible? I often wonder if giving a whopping dose of La200/300 would effect short bred cattle.
We have not had good results in the past with giving La200 and patching alone. When the patch comes off the eyes always seemed to be mostly blind. We get docked at sale if they don't have clear eyes. We've resorted to more work of topical daily (much better luck with mastitis treatment daily) and a patch to keep the flies, dust and sun off the eye.
While we seemed to have good success years back with a mixed (several pink eye vacs mixed together by the vet) pink eye vaccination I'm quickly loosing faith in them after the last few years. They aren't cheap for sure and we sell in November/December so clear eyes is what the buyer wants vs knowledge of pinkeye vacs given.
 
Double R Ranch said:
Does anyone have any issues treating with injection antibiotics with short pregnancies? Is there a range y'all avoid giving injection antibiotics if possible? I often wonder if giving a whopping dose of La200/300 would effect short bred cattle.
We have not had good results in the past with giving La200 and patching alone. When the patch comes off the eyes always seemed to be mostly blind. We get docked at sale if they don't have clear eyes. We've resorted to more work of topical daily (much better luck with mastitis treatment daily) and a patch to keep the flies, dust and sun off the eye.
While we seemed to have good success years back with a mixed (several pink eye vacs mixed together by the vet) pink eye vaccination I'm quickly loosing faith in them after the last few years. They aren't cheap for sure and we sell in November/December so clear eyes is what the buyer wants vs knowledge of pinkeye vacs given.

I read somewhere that Oxytet at day 14 of pregnancy has some consequences for the embryo, but I can't remember what. Maybe Lucky can share more.
 
Buck Randall said:
Chocolate Cow2 said:
Anybody else having trouble finding LA 300? Local animal health supplier said the FDA shut the plant down for not sanitizing bottles before bottling the antibiotic. No one knows when LA 300 will be available again.
Great timing, right?

All of the injectable oxytetracyclines have been on backorder for a couple of months. It's going to be a while.
Seen lots of LA 200 on the shelf at the feed store yesterday. Will ask around and see about the LA300.
 
kenny thomas said:
Buck Randall said:
Chocolate Cow2 said:
Anybody else having trouble finding LA 300? Local animal health supplier said the FDA shut the plant down for not sanitizing bottles before bottling the antibiotic. No one knows when LA 300 will be available again.
Great timing, right?

All of the injectable oxytetracyclines have been on backorder for a couple of months. It's going to be a while.
Seen lots of LA 200 on the shelf at the feed store yesterday. Will ask around and see about the LA300.

Thanks Kenny. Valley Vet shows it on back order with a notification of when it's back in stock.
 
Hmmmmm, it's odd how some things gets in short supply. Ralgro was almost unheard of for a while and now it's easy but much higher. Had a slight problem finding tetnus anti-toxin but now I can get it.
 
Hootowl said:
Hmmmmm, it's odd how some things gets in short supply. Ralgro was almost unheard of for a while and now it's easy but much higher. Had a slight problem finding tetnus anti-toxin but now I can get it.

Sustain III calf boluses have been on indefinite backorder for well over a year yet the cattle boluses are available.
 
I thought LA 200 & 300 were to become prescription drugs at the beginning of 2020. This does seem to be a co-inky-dink, suddenly the bottles aren't sterilized adequately and poof it's all gone and will be for quite some time. Like maybe till after Jan 1?
 

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