Alternative to High Priced Mineral = none?

[Limomike]

I try to have free choice minerals available year round now.. (didnt used to, but after talking to several on here I do now)
and it has helped the overall general health of my herd. I feed a mineral called "Big 8 plus 2" from Stillwater Milling Company. It has a minimum of 15% calcium, and max of 18%; with a phosporus content max of 8%. along with all the others like magnesium, cobalt,copper,iodine,zinc, potassium, etc.. plus 2 is the Chlortetracycline in it. 2G

 

[TexasBred]

We fed kelp and redmond's sea salt, 50/50 this summer, no foot rot and no pinkeye for the first time ever.

Probably pure coincidence.

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't know if kelp supplementation works or not; but this is being looked at seriously by the beef research people

http://beef.unl.edu/beefreports/200316.shtml

 

[wstevenl]

Our co-op sells Kelp but only because a friend of ours that feeds it to his cattle and puts it in his chicken feed requested it. When we came in to buy it they got all excited, telling us we were only the second customers that had ever asked for it. lol

I've heard that it doesn't have alot of anything but iodine, but I've also heard that it helps the animals break down and use the minerals that are in their forage better... I don't know what makes it work but lots of people claim that it does.

This site has alot of claims for their product. http://www.noamkelp.com/slfeed.html

 

[Bluestem]

Texas Tech is also researching the use of kelp. I do not know if the research has been published yet.
Here is a quote-
Seaweed Proven to Lower E-Coli in Beef

Seaweed fed to cattle has been found to reduce the deadly E-coli bacteria in beef by 300%. New studies have been undertaken at the Texas Tech University by Dr. V. Allen that shows that the seaweed called ascophyllum nodosum, or rockweed, to reduce the instance of E-coli bacteria by 300% when fed to the animals 14 days prior to slaughtering and processing. Trials in the laboratory, experimental feedlot and a large commercial feedlot have all proven conclusive. In recent years thousands of people are getting sick from eating uncooked or not sufficiently cooked beef. It has become a major concern to the beef industry. The numbers grow more each year. The cause is the bacteria E-coli which is found in the intestines of cattle and other animals. This bacteria can contaminate the beef during processing. Although research is ongoing into the matter, the evidence so far is very good that seaweed meal is a natural and cheap method to help the fight against this deadly bacteria in beef.

 

[Limomike]

Wouldnt "reducing" the E-coli by 300% more or less eliminate it???

 

[SRBeef]

I've been keeping a 250 lb barrel of Mineralyx in front of the whole herd. Now that I have split off the calves I put a bag of kelp meal on their side of the fenceline.

Mineralyx contents: http://www.crystalyx.com/beef/pdfs/Mineral-lyx.pdf

The calves seem to consume more kelp than the cows who seem to prefer the Mineralyx which was originally suggested by a neighbor with long beef cattle experience and similar conditions to mine.

With close to a 600lb 205-day weaning weight average, no problems calving unassisted and less than ideal pastures since mid summer I am hesitant to change anything. Maybe I've just had beginners luck but if it ain't broke, don't fix it is another way of looking at it.

The kelp is expensive, we'll see how long it lasts (average consumption rate).

If you assume animals consume what their body needs and have good results then I'm sure the economics of providing a good mineral work out regardless of herd size.

If on the other hand cattle are consuming mineral like kids eat candy then maybe we can switch to something less paletable?

I do not agree with the idea of mixing salt and kelp as those are two different needs. I don't want to force a cow to consume more salt than it needs in order to get mineral that it is lacking. jmho.

As far as salt goes, I just put out a pure white salt lick block in a heavy duty rubber tray (with drain holes) on the ground near the waterer. Salt in this form is still very inexpensive. Tray keeps it clean. They get the salt that they need and mineral is separate.

 

[TexasBred]

Wouldnt "reducing" the E-coli by 300% more or less eliminate it???

Seems just a 100% reduction would eliminate it. ;-)

 

[KMacGinley]

We fed kelp and redmond's sea salt, 50/50 this summer, no foot rot and no pinkeye for the first time ever.

.
What does that end up costing?

Acadian Kelp is $40/bag and Redman's is $17. So 100lbs cost $57/2 = $26.5 per 50# Which is the same as I was paying for MSU Beef cow mineral, which lasted less than a week for 61 head. The Kelp mix lasted 3 weeks.

The cows were pictured on the breeds page, and they did well on it. Pastures or hay with clovers or other legumes should get you what you need for Ca and P. The kelp has the nutrients in a form which can be used. And the Redmonds salt comes loaded with micronutrients as well, especially iodine, a deficiency of which is suspected in Pinkeye and footrot problems.

 

[KMacGinley]

We fed kelp and redmond's sea salt, 50/50 this summer, no foot rot and no pinkeye for the first time ever.

Probably pure coincidence.

Could be, but I don't think so. Our cows spend a lot of time standing in the river and any ponds they can find, and this summer they didn't have to look too hard.

Always had footrot before, and the grass on the conservancy was about 6 feet high, but no pinkeye. Iodine that is not readily usable or deficient is thought to make them prone to both conditions. They say that this is usable in kelp and redmonds, so I just guess that I will continue to use it, you can do so or not .

 

[Aero]

I don't know if kelp supplementation works or not; but this is being looked at seriously by the beef research people

http://beef.unl.edu/beefreports/200316.shtml

too bad they decided it didnt do anything...

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't know if kelp supplementation works or not; but this is being looked at seriously by the beef research people

http://beef.unl.edu/beefreports/200316.shtml

too bad they decided it didnt do anything...

The results were not too encouraging; but if it were completely beyond the bounds of plausibility they wouldn't need to do any research. I have never knowingly fed kelp. I don't personally know of anybody who has and I am not recommending the stuff....just acknowledging that there is research being done out there too check some of the claims.

 

[djinwa]

I was wondering who first came up with the idea of feeding kelp to cows. Did somebody see their cow out diving for it?

 

[hrbelgians]

Interesting thread!!
I do not know the answers, however I am doing a little research totally on my own to see what the outcome is. Have been playing with it for two years now. There has been lots of talk about kelp, is it worth the money or not and I don't pretend to know the answer but hope to learn eventually. This is not very professional, however trying to see what the outcome is for me.

This is the result for this year so far. Early in the year the cows won't even touch my phosphorus minerals but will go for the kelp, calcium minerals and salt. When the grass got here and they calved they backed off of the kelp a little and started consuming the phosphorus minerals more and backing off on the calcium minerals, still the same amount of salt. (Redmond sea salt by the way.) After the first rush of grass was over they backed way off on the kelp, 1 gallon would last 35 head for 3 weeks, early on they were consuming a gallon in 3 days.
Now we will go to early winter.
We are still grazing and they want a gallon of kelp in 3 days again, same amount of salt and won't touch mineral of any sort??? Different pasture of course, so I can add that to the confusion. So I decided to try something else. I gave them pure A.D.E. and pure yeast as a seperate dessert to see if they like that?? The result..........the fight was on and that is the first thing they go for? Not sure what this is telling me other than the cows are smarter than I am. But there seems to me there has to be something in the kelp for certain times of the year?

I am now doing tissue testing as well to see if I can figure this out.
Sorry, no real answers, just some info for you to ponder on.

 

[pwilli3]

I've been a fan of Joel Salatin for a while now, but did not know the kelp advice. This has made for an interesting thread.

One question, can feeding kelp as a mineral be used as a marketing tool? Automatically a surf & turf product? :lol:

 

[TexasBred]

Interesting thread!!
I do not know the answers, however I am doing a little research totally on my own to see what the outcome is. Have been playing with it for two years now. There has been lots of talk about kelp, is it worth the money or not and I don't pretend to know the answer but hope to learn eventually. This is not very professional, however trying to see what the outcome is for me.

This is the result for this year so far. Early in the year the cows won't even touch my phosphorus minerals but will go for the kelp, calcium minerals and salt. When the grass got here and they calved they backed off of the kelp a little and started consuming the phosphorus minerals more and backing off on the calcium minerals, still the same amount of salt. (Redmond sea salt by the way.) After the first rush of grass was over they backed way off on the kelp, 1 gallon would last 35 head for 3 weeks, early on they were consuming a gallon in 3 days.
Now we will go to early winter.
We are still grazing and they want a gallon of kelp in 3 days again, same amount of salt and won't touch mineral of any sort??? Different pasture of course, so I can add that to the confusion. So I decided to try something else. I gave them pure A.D.E. and pure yeast as a seperate dessert to see if they like that?? The result..........the fight was on and that is the first thing they go for? Not sure what this is telling me other than the cows are smarter than I am. But there seems to me there has to be something in the kelp for certain times of the year?

I am now doing tissue testing as well to see if I can figure this out.
Sorry, no real answers, just some info for you to ponder on.

Please explain "Calcium Minerals"...."Phosphorus Minerals"...."Pure ADE" .... As for the yeast. You'll love it too....it tastes great.

 

[hrbelgians]

Interesting thread!!
I do not know the answers, however I am doing a little research totally on my own to see what the outcome is. Have been playing with it for two years now. There has been lots of talk about kelp, is it worth the money or not and I don't pretend to know the answer but hope to learn eventually. This is not very professional, however trying to see what the outcome is for me.

This is the result for this year so far. Early in the year the cows won't even touch my phosphorus minerals but will go for the kelp, calcium minerals and salt. When the grass got here and they calved they backed off of the kelp a little and started consuming the phosphorus minerals more and backing off on the calcium minerals, still the same amount of salt. (Redmond sea salt by the way.) After the first rush of grass was over they backed way off on the kelp, 1 gallon would last 35 head for 3 weeks, early on they were consuming a gallon in 3 days.
Now we will go to early winter.
We are still grazing and they want a gallon of kelp in 3 days again, same amount of salt and won't touch mineral of any sort??? Different pasture of course, so I can add that to the confusion. So I decided to try something else. I gave them pure A.D.E. and pure yeast as a seperate dessert to see if they like that?? The result..........the fight was on and that is the first thing they go for? Not sure what this is telling me other than the cows are smarter than I am. But there seems to me there has to be something in the kelp for certain times of the year?

I am now doing tissue testing as well to see if I can figure this out.
Sorry, no real answers, just some info for you to ponder on.

Please explain "Calcium Minerals"...."Phosphorus Minerals"...."Pure ADE" .... As for the yeast. You'll love it too....it tastes great.

(I will only tell you as much as I know, which ain't much)
I am agressively trying to learn all this though.
As an answer, just by reading the tag, and compairing the ingredients, they are high in % of calcium or phosphorus. As for ADE, it is nothing except A, D & E.
I know, this is not a very technical answer, I will need to bring the tags along another day.
I guess I need to give the yeast a shot sometime. :lol2:

 

[rockridgecattle]

Cutting minerals can and will effect your bottom line. If a broad spectrum mineral is to costly, test the hay and test the soil. It will tell you what your cows need and then get it made up.
Going without mineral is cheaper in the here and now but look at what you are giving up
-decrease ability to absorb food intake--they will eat more food
-decrease fertility
-decrease clostrum quality
-decrease calf thriftyness after birth
-birthing problem
-increase retained placenta
-poor breed back second year
-increase foot rot
-increase pink eye
-increase lumpy jaw
-increase on replacing fence posts---been there...poor quality mineral
-increase the chance on re wireing equipment---been there too...poor quality mineral
-decrease bull sperm motility, quality and quantity...would be a bummer to have even 10-20% open cause of poor quality.

in the end you end up costing more money down the road. It's not a matter of if it is going to happen, only when it will happen. And by the time you reaize the problem and correct it, it will take 2 years to recover...after correcting the problem...two birthing and weaning cycles to recover. That in the end will cost you more than a few bags of mineral.