Alternative to High Priced Mineral = none?

[Arkieman]

According to this article http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Content.asp?ContentID=220621 it states that a 1200 lb pregnant dry cow seven months since calving needs 13 grams of Phosphorus/day. If she consumes a modest 24 lbs of hay/day (2% of BW)(.15% Phos hay), she will get 16 grams from the hay alone.

Another reference (Nutrient Requirements of Beef Cattle) http://books.google.com/books?id=Rx...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA58,M1

On pages 57-58 it speaks of maintenance requirements of 16mg/kg body weight, which if my math is correct works out to be about 9 grams/day. On page 58 it references a study on Hereford heifers that measured performance of 2 groups from weaning through 5th gestation/lactation. One fed diet of 6-12g P/day vs. 20-38g P/day. Growth and reproduction stayed the same in both groups!

As everyone knows, the Phosphorus is the big $ item in the mineral. Given the above, do we even need to supplement?? Did I miss something or have we been "marketed" into thinking we need to supplement this costly mineral?

 

[wstevenl]

I don't have an answer for you but I can tell you that Joel Salatin feeds hay and diverse pastures only and his mineral is 50/50 kelp and salt. I just bought a 55lb bag of kelp meal and it was about $40. The salt is cheap. I honestly don't how the cost compares to other loose minerals but I like that it's simple and organic. Our cows licked up alot of it for a day or two and now just eat a small amount at a time.

 

[dun]

I don't have an answer for you but I can tell you that Joel Salatin feeds hay and diverse pastures only and his mineral is 50/50 kelp and salt. I just bought a 55lb bag of kelp meal and it was about $40. The salt is cheap. I honestly don't how the cost compares to other loose minerals but I like that it's simple and organic. Our cows licked up alot of it for a day or two and now just eat a small amount at a time.

What was the analysis of the kelp?

 

[Aaron]

Phosphorus is only needed in the breeding season. Come late fall and winter, you should be switching to a low phos, high calcium mineral which is much cheaper. :cowboy:

 

[Arkieman]

Phosphorus is only needed in the breeding season. Come late fall and winter, you should be switching to a low phos, high calcium mineral which is much cheaper. :cowboy:

According to the above mentioned articles, you may not even need it then...

 

[TexasBred]

I don't have an answer for you but I can tell you that Joel Salatin feeds hay and diverse pastures only and his mineral is 50/50 kelp and salt. I just bought a 55lb bag of kelp meal and it was about $40. The salt is cheap. I honestly don't how the cost compares to other loose minerals but I like that it's simple and organic. Our cows licked up alot of it for a day or two and now just eat a small amount at a time.

What was the analysis of the kelp?

Kelp makes a lot of claims about the dozens of trace minerals contained as well as the amino acids but most are at very low levels. Basically you get a little protein and some organic iodine, cattle do not pant as much and horses don't lather as much. Common brands are Acadian Kelp Meal and then another kelp meal sold as 'Tasco". A lot of nutritionist are using it and recommending it but only because they are working with the kelp meal folks. Just my 2 cents worth. I'd spend my money on a high quality mineral and yeah I'd look for one lower in phosphorus if contained all my cattle needed.

 

[Aaron]

Phosphorus is only needed in the breeding season. Come late fall and winter, you should be switching to a low phos, high calcium mineral which is much cheaper. :cowboy:

According to the above mentioned articles, you may not even need it then...

You will need the calcium though, so don't cut your mineral right out. There is a fine line between smart and stupid. :cowboy:

 

[Arkieman]

Phosphorus is only needed in the breeding season. Come late fall and winter, you should be switching to a low phos, high calcium mineral which is much cheaper. :cowboy:

According to the above mentioned articles, you may not even need it then...

You will need the calcium though, so don't cut your mineral right out. There is a fine line between smart and stupid. :cowboy:

According to the same references, a 1200 lb cow needs 9g of Calcium. If said cow consumes 26lbs hay w/ .51% CA content, she will get 60g of calcium from the hay alone... :cowboy:

I'm no expert (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I am a numbers guy. Are the numbers wrong?? What is the hole here?

 

[Arkieman]

Another reference from Extension.org http://www.extension.org/faq/28869

Snip:
What are the calcium and phosphorus requirements of grazing cattle?
Related resource areas: Beef Cattle Typically in situations where cows or stocker cattle are grazing or being fed harvested forages, the calcium requirements (0.2 to 0.4 percent) are met. An exception to this would be cows placed on a high grain diet during periods of drought. In these instances, calcium should be supplemented.

In contrast, phosphorus (14 to 28 grams per day required) may be deficient in some grazing situations. Table 1 lists the phosphorus requirements of 1,200-pound cows as influenced by a number of factors.

Table 1: Phosphorus requirements of 1,200-pound cows as influenced by a number of factors

Stage of Production Minimum Daily Phosphorous Requirements,
Grams
Pregnant:
Mid Stage 17 grams
Late stage 20 grams
Lactating:
10 lbs./day 22 grams
20 lbs./day 27 grams

Know the quality of the forage that the cattle are consuming. Depending on maturity of the forage and stage of production of the cattle, little to no P supplementation may be needed.
Phosphorus is expensive, so don't over supplement it in a mineral program.

 

[bigbull338]

yes both salt an minerals are both higher than the devil.an we cant control how high their price gets.salt has gone up 50%.i havent bought minerals in awhile.but i need to buy some.

 

[KMacGinley]

We fed kelp and redmond's sea salt, 50/50 this summer, no foot rot and no pinkeye for the first time ever.

 

[tom4018]

We fed kelp and redmond's sea salt, 50/50 this summer, no foot rot and no pinkeye for the first time ever.

.
What does that end up costing?

 

[grannysoo]

No one in our area has Kelp. I would like to try that instead of minerals.

 

[novatech]

Feeding mineral or not is related to cattle fertility and general over all condition. I have increased conception rates dramatically in one herd I take care of by giving free choice mineral periodically during the year. In another heard the the condition of the cattle improved dramatically with the addition of free choice mineral. From these experiences I choose to keep mineral out with my personal cattle most of the time. I do not have that many cattle where it would be a major expense but in large herds I could see where one would want to find out more precisely what their cattle need, or don,t need, in order to control cost.

 

[BC]

A lot of the mineral needs depends on the soils in your area. Most of Texas is phosphorus deficient (East Texas and South Texas anyways). Some of the earliest mineral work in Texas was done in South Texas and adding phosphorus to the diet improved conception rates dramatically.

Minerals and vaccines are not the place to cut costs.

 

[angus9259]

Interesting thread. Thanks for posting. I feed mineral because I'm supposed to not because I have any numerical evidence to the contrary. I've looked at it like vaccines I guess. One death or missed pregnancy and it pays for itself. What does mineral do to milking and wean weight? What does mineral do to forage consumption? So many questions but hardly no real hard evidence.

 

[Jogeephus]

One death or missed pregnancy and it pays for itself.

Haven't bought any mineral lately have you? Its gotten ridiculus!

Good post. Gives you something to think about. There are many other "neccessities" that I find myself questioning whether they are absolute.

 

[dun]

Of course this is all anecdotal, but............. Some friends of ours have a custom blend of minerals, it's balanced based on the quality of the pasture and hay, costs about 3 times what our minerals do and the don;t get any better results.
A lot of the producers around here don;t feed minerals and their cattle don;t carry the condition ours do, weaning weights are lower and open cows are greater. But I don;t know if that's just the mineral or just over all managment of animals and forage. Feeding minerals could be like the elephant repellent (doesn;t apply to KNERSIE), it must work since I've never seen an elephant aorund here.

 

[angus9259]

One death or missed pregnancy and it pays for itself.

Haven't bought any mineral lately have you? Its gotten ridiculus! .

Monday. Kent Framework 365 ADE. $27.50 per bag. $7 per head per month. 3 months are required for grass tet leaving $65 per year per head for elephant repellant. Of course, I also do enjoy the benefits of the insecticide in the summer as well.

Feed store owner said "I'm glad someone is still feeding mineral".

 

[Brandonm22]

There is money that most herds can make by testing their forages and their hay and other supplement then matching that to the nutritional needs of the cow according to where she is in her yearly life cycle (calving, nursing, breeding, dry). Don't turn your cows into a research project though. If you have 95% conception, 550+ lb weaning weights, and your cows score in good body condition year round don't yank their fancy mineral program from them unless you have done your homework and run all the numbers first and seen that the numbers show that a simpler mineral program is suffient. You might need to consult with a nutritionist to do this. I would rather be overpaying a few $ hundred for minerals than take a few $ thousand hit by having lowered conception rate. That said paying for excess vitamins and minerals that the animals don't need just gets turned into expensive urine.