Alley/chute advice?

[M.Magis]

Was wondering if anyone could offer some suggestions to getting calm cattle to move into my chute. I know my setup isn't great, but it's temporary until I can get something more permanent built in a better location. What I have works fine for calves and any cow with a normal flight zone, but most of mine are so used to me I can't get them to move. Once I get them to step into the wooden "alley", they just stop and stand there. I close the small gate behind them, but they just don't want to move forward. Once I do manage to get them to the chute, they stop because they don't want to step up into it (it's a portable chute). I think putting a rubber mat in the chute would help a little with getting them in there, but that doesn't get them to move. I have an old cow that I think may have a piece of hardware in her, and I needed to get a magnet in her and figured I'd worm the group while I was there. It took me nearly a half hour just to get her dealt with. After that I turned the rest loose and figured I'd deal with it another day. I don't have a hot shot, but I'm getting close to buying one if that's what it takes.

Here's a fairly rough sketch of my set-up.

 

[Philip-TX]

I'd say with an alley that short, and solid sides, they can't see an opening at the end to "get out"/move toward.

The alley might need to be straight coming out of the covered shed. That way they can see the open end through the head catch.

 

[Caustic Burno]

That is what a hot shot is for IMO after a dose or two just the buzz will entice movement.
Again IMOO your cows have not been taught to respect your space I work mine close a couple of feet,
if I step toward one they step away maintaining distance.
I do not like using a hot shot but will use it as a training tool it is in my hand at all times when moving cows in the pen. Cows can be very intelligent at times.

 

[arkie1]

I agree. Seems if they see the "light at the end of the tunnel" that they'll move toward it. I use sorting paddles to load cattle into the tub and then into the alley way but sometimes it is necessary to use a hot shot to get them to move up the alley. It's usually the young calves or a cow who's not used to the routine. Once they've done it a few times they seem to get it.

 

[Brute 23]

If those are older cattle that have been through the pens before they are testing you. That is the equivalent of telling a kid not to touch some thing and then them turning you and saying... "you gonna make me". Every time you let them stop and do what they want you are training them to no follow your instruction. Basically, your cattle are spoiled.

I suggest using a good 6' long hot shot to sort and move your cattle at all times. A hot shot can be a sorting stick but a sorting slick can not be a hot shot. It gets the cattle to understand that you always have it, don't try any thing stupid. You can't enforce the rules only some times with animals, or people for that matter. I can work cattle for hours with a hot shot and never touch the button. I always poke them a couple times or swat the butt to get them moving first. Then if they don't cooperate I push the button. You can swat and sort with a hot shot just like a fiberglass stick or paddle. It won't hurt it. Once cattle are in motion, keep them in motion. It doesn't have to be a run or any thing like that. Once they start walking, keep them walking, don't let them stop.

Its hard to explain but animals are creatures of habit. The truck you drive, the way your dressed, what's in your hand, how many people, all effect the way they re-act. Every time you work cattle you are training them for the next time.

That's my opinion but there are many ways to do it. Just reading some basic behavioral psychology info can go a long ways working with animals IMO. :tiphat:

 

[M-5]

Pole them there and do your work with them standing in the alley. No need to even put them in the chute if its just routine shots.

 

[cow pollinater]

Brute 23 is not wrong. I use a sorting stick most of the time but always have a hot shot up next to the chute. They get poked two or three times and then a quick zap. A few times of that and all you have to do is poke them and they figure it out.
You can also open your chute up and run them through a few times when you don't need them and they learn to push on through and will flow a lot faster when you do need them. If they're gentle enough not to get upset after going through a few times on the same day, just open it all up and run them all through a few times on the day you're working them. By about the third time they'll walk right in expecting to be able to walk right out...Just don't do that if they're going to get hot on you.

 

[TexasBred]

Pole them there and do your work with them standing in the alley. No need to even put them in the chute if its just routine shots.

:nod: :nod:

 

[BRYANT]

That is what a hot shot is for IMO after a dose or two just the buzz will entice movement.
Again IMOO your cows have not been taught to respect your space I work mine close a couple of feet,
if I step toward one they step away maintaining distance.
I do not like using a hot shot but will use it as a training tool it is in my hand at all times when moving cows in the pen. Cows can be very intelligent at times.

I agree, A hot shot is the best tool a cattle person can own if used right. When used wrong it can be the worst tool. My cows are hotshot trained and most of the time the buzz is all it takes without ever touching them with it .

 

[dun]

I just gave their tail a bit of a twist and they move right along.

 

[M.Magis]

Pole them there and do your work with them standing in the alley. No need to even put them in the chute if its just routine shots.

You're right, it's no big deal for just giving shots. But I tried inserting the magnet while she stood in the alley, and that didn't work out so well. I did eventually get her in with same grain and a lot of tail twisting/pushing, but she didn't want to go. Part of it may be thaqt she didn't feel so hot, which was why I had her there to begin with.
I appreciate all the advice. I think I can straighten it out a bit, and I think I'll also get a hotshot to have on hand. They know nothing happens while they just stand there, so I guess they have no reason to move. The kid analogy was a good one. It's like some of the kids my boys go to school with, where you know one good azz whooping would straighten them up.

 

[dun]

Without a head restraint of somekind, i.e. head catch, a halter and something sturdy to tie it to works really well. Had to give a big bull a shot in the ear a couple of years ago, woudln;t fit in the old squeeze. Vet slipped a halter on him and tied his head to the back of the chute and gave the shot with no problem.

 

[Brute 23]

There is all kind of neat stuff to get the job done. You just have to read the cattle. There are cattle that have no problem with head gates and there are cattle that will shut down and kill themselves in one.

I needed to ear tag some cows a couple weeks ago that have heavy Brahman influence. No squeeze, head gate, ect. I stood off their left hip and tied a rag to my fiberglass working stick. I waved it by their left eye and when they got to looking at it I reached up and tagged their right ear. :lol: Probably looked silly from a distance bit it worked good.

 

[Brute 23]

There is all kind of neat stuff to get the job done. You just have to read the cattle. There are cattle that have no problem with head gates and there are cattle that will shut down and kill themselves in one.

I needed to ear tag some cows a couple weeks ago that have heavy Brahman influence. No squeeze, head gate, ect. I stood off their left hip and tied a rag to my fiberglass working stick. I waved it by their left eye and when they got to looking at it I reached up and tagged their right ear. :lol: Probably looked silly from a distance bit it worked good.