AI bull recommendations?

[milkmaid]

So if I'm looking for bull recommendations for use on a herd of Holstein, Hol/Jersey, and Hol/Angus cows with the intention to breed beef with a terminal cross (and definitely need to add depth, growth, and butt!)... what would you pick? They'd be cows, not heifers, so as long as they're not cow-killers the calving ease isn't as important. The clean up bulls are black Angus. If there was a cross we could do and differentiate the AI bred cows from the cleanup bull-bred cows, that would make the owner very happy (though not essential). I'd go Hereford but there'd be too much white on the calves with the Holstein influence. Are there Charolais bulls that might work and not be docked at the sale barn (Idaho area)? Other options?

The easiest rep to use is Select Sires, so would prefer recommendations from their lineup if possible. Thanks!

 

[cbcr]

Milkmain,

We have had several cows that were Hereford crosses with Holstein, I guess it can happen, but all of the calves by Hereford from this cross are black white faced with Hereford markings and make some very good cows.

What is your reason for wanting to breed to beef bulls?

 

[Lucky_P]

milkmaid,
Some of the solid red Shorthorn bulls we've been using over the past 4-5 years have been blowing the doors off the competition - WAY better than any of the high WW Angus AI sires we've used, and as good or better than most of the high WW Simmental sires...
Waukaru Coppertop 464 and Waukaru Orion 2047 steers have topped the last two calf crops here, mostly out of 3/4 AN-1/4 SM cows; easy calving, explosive growth, big butts.
Will be using Waukaru Patent heavily this year, on everything except heifers and high % Simmental cows.
Coppertop & Patent (as well as calving ease specialist Waukaru GoldMine 2109) are available from OriGen - my ABS rep gets 'em for me.

Guess if I were limited to SelectSires stuff... I'd probably go for Red Density, a red BeefMaker son...good WW, top REA/Mrb SM sire they carry.
Nothing about the two Shorthorn sires SS carries that would want me to use them in a commercial setting.

 

[cow pollinater]

ABS has a program all set up for marketing simangus/dairy calves and the lim over jersey is pretty popular. Don't buy beef semen until you look into those programs as some of the same bulls will go in at a pretty good discount.

 

[Waterway65]

I haven't followed the price of dairy cows for a long time. It used to be they were more than beef cows. Might it be more practical to sell dairy and by back the kind of beef cow you really want? It takes a lot of years to grade up a herd. Mel

 

[Ojp6]

You may want to look into the Wulf limousine program for breeding dairy cows to their bulls. It's primarily for jerseys but they may do something with these to. One good thing is that Wulfs will generally give really good money for calves out of there bulls. Otherwise I guess char would at least make them look less colorful from a distance. Char on straight holstiens that I have seen were not the kind of calves anybody wanted to feed out very bad. Might want to breed them to something that gets fat faster than a char.

 

[milkmaid]

The owner of the herd likes trying new things... he may be moving out of dairy and into beef cow-calf in the next few years, especially if milk prices decide to stay down. The beef market is certainly more lucrative. Having crossbred calves out of his dairy herd does allow the opportunity to diversify (milk/calves/beef) depending on what the market does.

Thanks for the comments, keep 'em coming.

 

[bulldurham]

milkmaid,
Some of the solid red Shorthorn bulls we've been using over the past 4-5 years have been blowing the doors off the competition - WAY better than any of the high WW Angus AI sires we've used, and as good or better than most of the high WW Simmental sires...
Waukaru Coppertop 464 and Waukaru Orion 2047 steers have topped the last two calf crops here, mostly out of 3/4 AN-1/4 SM cows; easy calving, explosive growth, big butts.
Will be using Waukaru Patent heavily this year, on everything except heifers and high % Simmental cows.
Coppertop & Patent (as well as calving ease specialist Waukaru GoldMine 2109) are available from OriGen - my ABS rep gets 'em for me.

Guess if I were limited to SelectSires stuff... I'd probably go for Red Density, a red BeefMaker son...good WW, top REA/Mrb SM sire they carry.
Nothing about the two Shorthorn sires SS carries that would want me to use them in a commercial setting.

JSF Gauge is as commercially oriented as any you mentioned and much more maternal than Patent- who I'd classify as a terminal sire strictly based on his shear size.

 

[cbcr]

The owner of the herd likes trying new things... he may be moving out of dairy and into beef cow-calf in the next few years

Just to keep options open, another thing that you could do is breed the cows to Milking Fleckvieh bulls. The Fleckvieh is a dual purpose breed so if the owner were to decide he wanted to continue with dairy, he could. Or if his wish is to go the beef route that would work as well.

recently one of our members had a first calf Fleckvieh bred animal produce 106 lbs of milk on test day.

The calves should be black/white face.

You can go to our website http://www.dairycattleregistry.com for more information and links to the bulls on our Bull listing pages.

 

[Lucky_P]

Maybe I misunderstood milkmaid's intent...I thought she was looking for a 'terminal' type sire...

We initially introduced Shorthorn into our breeding program for 'maternal' traits...but the steer performance has been so impressive, compared to what we were getting with Angus sires...that we're principally looking at Shorthorn as a 'terminal' cross, for production of feeder calves.
Hadn't looked at Gauge since SS picked him up... his numbers have changed some...when he first came out, his MCE was so abysmally below breed average that there was no way I'd ever have considered using him with the intent of keeping daughters.
Yes, Patent 8161 has a -1 Milk epd... but coming out of HO/JE/HO-JE crosses... Milk should not be a concern. Milk is not a 'maternal' trait...it's a production trait with a feed cost associated with it. Even in my own herd...ANxSimAngus...with some cows having some Holstein several generations back...I select for sires with lower milk epds, if all other aspects are acceptable. I don't need or want more Milk.

Really like cbcr's recommendation of Fleckvieh...Sold a batch of Holstein heifers with strong Red Holstein influence, bred to a polled Fleckvieh sire, back in 1990... sure would have liked to have seen those calves.

 

[milkmaid]

Definitely need a terminal cross... I'm not hearing anything from the owner that indicates he's going cow-calf right now. I'm afraid if we're not using a definite terminal sire the owner might be tempted to retain and milk the heifer calves (because honestly, beef x Holstein crosses do milk really well, for 30 days!) - and that's not financially beneficial for him.

 

[Lucky_P]

I'd definitely be looking into the program CP mentioned... and the Wulf's limo deal.

 

[cbcr]

the owner might be tempted to retain and milk the heifer calves (because honestly, beef x Holstein crosses do milk really well, for 30 days!) - and that's not financially beneficial for him

The Milking Fleckvieh DO milk. With the breeds that we represent, the Fleckvieh and Montbeliarde can compete with their Holstein herdmates when it comes to production. The Fleckvieh, is the second largest breed in numbers only behind the Holstein in the world. Besides being able to produce milk quite well, they seem to be able to so so on a little less feed, have better hybrid vigor, One of the greatest benefits is the better health from these crosses.

The experience gathered over several years from operations with rotational or upgrading crossbreeding programs have resulted in advantages due in particular to:

- Improved Fertility
- Higher Fat and Protein percents in the milk
- Reduced Mastitis and Somatic Cell Counts
- More hardiness and stronger cows are easy keepers
- Increase longevity in the offspring
- Posses good udder quality
- Excellent milking persistence during lactation
- Higher percent ratios of components for cheese production
- Lower veterinary costs that other breeds
- Improved fattening traits of calves
- Cull cows have higher carcass values than other breeds
- Perfect cross with Holstein in a 3-way composite

 

[milkmaid]

You may want to look into the Wulf limousine program for breeding dairy cows to their bulls. It's primarily for jerseys but they may do something with these to. One good thing is that Wulfs will generally give really good money for calves out of there bulls. Otherwise I guess char would at least make them look less colorful from a distance. Char on straight holstiens that I have seen were not the kind of calves anybody wanted to feed out very bad. Might want to breed them to something that gets fat faster than a char.

Do you have recommendations on specific Wulf bulls?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Do you have recommendations on specific Wulf bulls?

The black Limi bulls :cowboy You could even go Limiflex if you want to make a more complicated 3 way cross...

Check the Wulf Cattle website. They are a big integrated operation. There is a name and number for their dairy beef program. Nice people.

Here they will come and pick up the calves IF you have enough.

 

[bball]

Maybe I misunderstood milkmaid's intent...I thought she was looking for a 'terminal' type sire...

We initially introduced Shorthorn into our breeding program for 'maternal' traits...but the steer performance has been so impressive, compared to what we were getting with Angus sires...that we're principally looking at Shorthorn as a 'terminal' cross, for production of feeder calves.

x2. I too have been very pleasantly surprised.

 

[milkmaid]

I looked through the Wulf program -
http://www.wulfcattle.com/CattleFeeding/CalfBuyBack/

They do have some really nice looking bulls - http://www.wulfcattle.com/BuyItNow/d126 ... ?type=view - I just wondered if there were specific ones you liked.

I passed on the information about the Waukara shorthorn bulls to the owner of these dairy cows - will see what he decides. I really liked the pictures of those bulls though so I'm hopeful. ;-)

 

[bigbruh]

My neighbor has Holstein/angus cross cows. For the last two years he has used Warner War Party with outstanding results. He had a steer dress out @ over 1000 lbs at 13 months. I can send pics of his new calves if interested. War Party is proven and in the select sires lineup.

 

[Ojp6]

I looked through the Wulf program -
http://www.wulfcattle.com/CattleFeeding/CalfBuyBack/

They do have some really nice looking bulls - http://www.wulfcattle.com/BuyItNow/d126 ... ?type=view - I just wondered if there were specific ones you liked.

I passed on the information about the Waukara shorthorn bulls to the owner of these dairy cows - will see what he decides. I really liked the pictures of those bulls though so I'm hopeful. ;-)

I really don't have many recommendations with regards to their bulls. I have never used one and don't know too much about the bulls. I had just heard several people talking about their program with dairy cattle.