affirmative action

[coolwater]

just wondering what all feel about affirmative action.heres my take on it.and ill start with a little back ground.one of my grandmothers lived on reservation in oklahoma.another grandmother was indian too she just didnt live on a reservation.i hear all this talk about affirmative action.kids from elementry school through college according to their race can recieve lower test scores and still pass the same test as their fellow students have test score higher.some races can reieve a job or win a bid on a contracts in the name of affirmative action simply because of their race.the way i see it is if you allow affirmative action to be used to get lower test scores and pass or to gain employment you are the first person to disscriminate you.by using affirmative action youre basicly saying "im a certain race and im ignorant and cant do any better so just give it to me."as i said at the beginning i have a lot of native american heritage and if someone had told me were going to let your kids score less on these test because of their race i would have been very offended and probably come unwound.

 

[cypressfarms]

I graduated high school in 1987, and a woman minority received a full scholarship to LSU that had a lower GPA, lower ACT, less academic achievments, and less community involvement than myself (she was a classmate of mine). I received no scholarship, and paid student loans for 10 years after I graduated LSU. I'm probably not a good person to ask about affirmative action. After almost 20 years, I still remember her name.

The basic principle behind affirmative action is to reward those classes or groups of people who have been harmed in the past. While that is admirable in intent, in the long run, it only makes those receiving the benefits less competitive, and less able to deal with the "real world". JMO.

 

[Ryder]

I am not expressing my opinion because I was raised not to talk that way, especially in mixed company.

 

[jaydill]

I am a minority student. I have to say that I don't agree with giving money away to an underrepresented minority just because. I think it should be earned. I work hard to keep a high GPA and keep myself in the upper portion of my graduating class. I also worked hard to score high on my SAT and ACT. I have to say that I have not yet seen unfair favor on my behalf. I think this is due to the fact that perhaps the heads of these scholarships programs, etc. are realizing how ridiculous it is to give money away to students strictly because of historic background. Especially in a case like cypressfarms where clearly the person more deserving of the money was his or herself. What I think we should be aiming to do and what we may be slowly moving toward is once again offering aide to students who have earned it through diligence in school. That way, underrepresented students can strive to reach the same level, not continue to fail to perform at the height of their skills simply because they think they're guaranteed money for a college education.

 

[flaboy+]

Here's one for you. Many, many, many years ago (back when an employer could test potential employee's) I went to a job interview with six others. We knew we would be tested. All of us took the test and they called me and a minority back in. They offered the minority guy the job. He turned it down. They Then called me in and offered me the job. I asked how I scored on my test. He showed me the test scores (he wasn't supposed to) and I had the highest score. I asked why I was their second choice and he told me they had a quota to fill. I told him I didn't want the job.

Now, you want ask how I feel about it?

 

[Crowderfarms]

It dont bother me at all. I have my walls in my office adorned with my Diplomas, from Harvard, Yale, William and Larry, Sherwin/ Williams, Match Book U and and the University of Phoenix online edition. I did all this between 1st and 12th grades. Wow!

 

[MikeC]

"Affirmative Action". Hmmmmmmmm, wonder who came up with the name?

What I would like to know is..........since Texas and California (and maybe other) states have become "White Minority" states, will they acknowledge those whites the same affirmative action offerings that minorities before them were given?

 

[warpaint]

Coolwater, I too am Native American. If I had ever accepted charity, because of my race, my Grandfather would have slapped me down. Even in this day and age, the Native American people of this country are discrimated against. I cannot imagine what it was like in Grampas time. I better stop now or this thing will take up the whole page.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Coolwater, I too am Native American. If I had ever accepted charity, because of my race, my Grandfather would have slapped me down. Even in this day and age, the Native American people of this country are discrimated against. I cannot imagine what it was like in Grampas time. I better stop now or this thing will take up the whole page.

Let it out Brother Warpaint. I'm in the same boat as you. My Grandmother was full blooded Cherokee. I had to poke at the question, because of Pride!

 

[Saltydawg]

I agree entirely with Coolwater.

I have no Native American heritage...in fact i'm as pale as they come lol. I'm not a bigot though and think that all people have the same potential when placed in a similar environment.

Using government programs to make up for perceived shortcomings isn't doing any favors to the people they are trying to help.

I do like cheap gas and cigarettes from the local Seneca reservation though :lol: .

 

[jaydill]

I myself am a quarter Blackfoot and the rest Black. And my parents disprove of me accepting financial aid just because I'm black. Everything I do has to be earned. And MikeC, you propose a good question. Flaboy, if I was in the positin you were in, but I was the minority, I would be offended that I'd been selected over you even though I had the lower test score just because I was a minority and there were quotas to fill. There may have been a time when affirmative action was or seemed like a good idea, but nowadays, we're all able enough to work hard and strive equally for equal jobs, minority or not.

 

[Victoria]

Well, I am white but I am a woman so that makes me a minority. How I can't figure out since supposedly this country is 51% women :?:
When did equal rights become more rights??? I am all for equal rights for everyone regardless of race and/or sex. What I am against is any group of people running around saying they are just as good as a white man now can you please lower your standards so that I can make it or give me some money to do it. If we are just as good why do we need lower standards? It really ticked me off to hear that they changed the amount of weight a paramedic needed to carry so that more women would make the cut. Great - pretty soon people won't get to the hospital because they wont be able to lift them. :roll:
Affirmative action is supposed to take racism and sexism out of companies. The thinking is that if a company is forced to higher a minority then they will realize that they are good workers and stop their prejudices. However, when a company is forced to higher a person who is inadquate for the job just because of race or sex it just causes resentment to build.
I will never understand racism. I just don't get it. I know it's out there and it really angers me. However, affirmative action is not the way to solve the problem. I agree with you coolwater, I think it is offensive.

 

[MikeC]

I myself am a quarter Blackfoot and the rest Black. And my parents disprove of me accepting financial aid just because I'm black. Everything I do has to be earned. And MikeC, you propose a good question. Flaboy, if I was in the positin you were in, but I was the minority, I would be offended that I'd been selected over you even though I had the lower test score just because I was a minority and there were quotas to fill. There may have been a time when affirmative action was or seemed like a good idea, but nowadays, we're all able enough to work hard and strive equally for equal jobs, minority or not.

I commend you highly Jaydill! We need more level headed people like you. ;-)

 

[flaboy+]

I myself am a quarter Blackfoot and the rest Black. And my parents disprove of me accepting financial aid just because I'm black. Everything I do has to be earned. And MikeC, you propose a good question. Flaboy, if I was in the positin you were in, but I was the minority, I would be offended that I'd been selected over you even though I had the lower test score just because I was a minority and there were quotas to fill. There may have been a time when affirmative action was or seemed like a good idea, but nowadays, we're all able enough to work hard and strive equally for equal jobs, minority or not.

Yeah, I wasn't told why he turned down the offer. Probably pay. BTW, his test score was fourth lowest out of six. Another thing to remember is this was A LONG TIME AGO. I was offended because my test score didn't really mean anything to them so why test me.

I too believe affirmative action should be done away with. Everyone has the same opportunites these days. It's just easier for some than others. I had to work a 40/week job to get my education.

 

[warpaint]

Don't mean to steal this thread, anyone interested http://www.cherokee.org/ this is a great site.

 

[cherokeeruby']

I feel the same about afirmative action. The same year my eldest son graduated from highschool a minority student was written up in the newspaper as having achieved the same exact SAT score as my son, was not an Eagle Scout as my son was. Did not mention him going all the way to state for UIL science competition, etc. It was reported he received 10 times the scholarship offers my son did.

 

[Medic24]

Well, slanting this thread a bit.............hope not to offend..........but based upon the REAL history of America, I believe that if we (modern Americans) owe anything to anyone.......it is the American Indian.

Very little is written about how they were raped, pilaged,intentionally sickened and massacred, robbed of everything, hunted down, and treated worse then animals for so many years. I for one am willing to make some sacrifice to repay our debt, our restitution. If that means a free college education, a favorable employment standing, or the like, then so be it.

I have had the pleasure of working with many American Indian during wildland fire duty, and one thing i have always noticed almost 100% within the groups...............PRIDE! :cboy

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

"A rose by any other name....." Affirmative action is discriminatory and "hate crime" legislation is unconstitutional...just symptomatic of the fascist/communist conspiracy our government has become. :shock:

 

[coolwater]

thanks for all the replies.i just wanted to know if i was alone in my feelings about affirmative action.im guessing that without affirmative action this country could and would do better economically.i believe if the job available is given to the most qualified and educated applicant we would have better production in our workforce.also our wages should increase.weve got just too many folks that just want a paycheck.and those folks are the ones pulling this country down.also if the scholarships were given according to merrit rather than quotas our workforce would be more intelligent.lets face it,if we put this into cattlemen terms it would go like this we wouldnt buy a scrawny,low rated,small framed,hatchet butted,impotent 3 legged bull to serv as our herd bull would we?no we would seek out and find the best bull we could.

 

[aplusmnt]

Well, slanting this thread a bit.............hope not to offend..........but based upon the REAL history of America, I believe that if we (modern Americans) owe anything to anyone.......it is the American Indian.

The only problem I have with this is most Indians today are not full blooded, most are not even 1/2 blooded. So if you have a 1/2 Indian and 1/2 White. That means that 1/2 of their ancestors were taking the land from the other half. And if you figure lots are 1/4 Indian and 3/4 white then it is even worse. I consider it a wash! But believe every full blooded Indian deserves a few million and everyone else nothing.

Personally I believe we only owe those that we personally owe. Lots of terrible things happened years ago, lots of wars, lots of things taken, given, things sold and bought. We can not be paying for everything our ancestors did hundreds of years ago. There has to be a statue of limitations on this stuff.