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adjusted weaning weights

farmguy

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What number of days are adjusted weaning weights corrected to in each breed? Are they all 205 days? thanks
 

LLBUX

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Here is how it applies-

Actual Weight- birthweight / age in days = average daily gain

ADG x 205 + birth weight = 205 day adjusted weight

For a 600 pound weight taken at 200 days Calf weighed 70 pounds at birth
600 pounds minus 70 pound BW =530 pounds gained
530 divided by 200 = 2.65 ADG
2.65 x 205 = 543 pounds gained
543 + 70 (BW) = 613 pound adjusted 205 day weight
 

elkwc

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I sell on actual weights and that is what I want to see when considering a bull. That applies to weaning and yearling weights. Many breeders refuse to provide actual weights. This is because they don't look as good in my opinion.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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LLBUX":31u7bwpo said:
Here is how it applies-

Actual Weight- birthweight / age in days = average daily gain

ADG x 205 + birth weight = 205 day adjusted weight

For a 600 pound weight taken at 200 days Calf weighed 70 pounds at birth
600 pounds minus 70 pound BW =530 pounds gained
530 divided by 200 = 2.65 ADG
2.65 x 205 = 543 pounds gained
543 + 70 (BW) = 613 pound adjusted 205 day weight


Thank you for the explanation, I have often wondered. Do you know how the adjusted birth weights are calculated?
 

dun

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midTN_Brangusman":2bbljigf said:
Do you know how the adjusted birth weights are calculated?
I think the BIF site explains it
 

BC

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elkwc":jylgkwd1 said:
I sell on actual weights and that is what I want to see when considering a bull. That applies to weaning and yearling weights. Many breeders refuse to provide actual weights. This is because they don't look as good in my opinion.
The purpose of 205 day adjusted weaning weights is to let you compare calves to a standard age. Normally, that can be from 5.5 to 8 months of age. I had a bull calf that weaned at 990 lbs no creep feed and still nursing his mother. The rest of the story was he was born 11/10/2006 and I weaned him Labor Day, 2007 (nearly 10 months). His adj. weaning wt was 702. You cannot always go by actual weights.
 

elkwc

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BC":2wgdox0d said:
elkwc":2wgdox0d said:
I sell on actual weights and that is what I want to see when considering a bull. That applies to weaning and yearling weights. Many breeders refuse to provide actual weights. This is because they don't look as good in my opinion.
The purpose of 205 day adjusted weaning weights is to let you compare calves to a standard age. Normally, that can be from 5.5 to 8 months of age. I had a bull calf that weaned at 990 lbs no creep feed and still nursing his mother. The rest of the story was he was born 11/10/2006 and I weaned him Labor Day, 2007 (nearly 10 months). His adj. weaning wt was 702. You cannot always go by actual weights.

I can go by actual weights if I know when the calf was weighed. If necessary I can adjust it. I helped with the some of the first 205 day weighing in this county. They would list an actual weight, days of age when weight and then do a straight adjustment to 205 days. No allowances for anything. I just weaned a bull calf at 8 months even that had mother milk and they were on decent wheat pasture for the last 6-7 weeks and he weighed 1000 even a day after weaning. I know this calf has plenty of growth and don't need adjustments to prove it. The way they do the adjustments and allow for a cow's age, ect is nothing but a way to pencil whip it and means nothing to most commercial breeders. I know one PB Angus breeder told me that they will even adjust BW's for calves born on cows on wheat pasture. You can't compare calves accurately when they make all of the adjustments and allowances. When a 13-14 month old bull is still 50 lbs or more below his adjusted yearling weight something is wrong.I see the same variances with 205 day weights. And I see them regularly.
 

Nesikep

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LLBUX":bu8yrsqb said:
Here is how it applies-

Actual Weight- birthweight / age in days = average daily gain

ADG x 205 + birth weight = 205 day adjusted weight

For a 600 pound weight taken at 200 days Calf weighed 70 pounds at birth
600 pounds minus 70 pound BW =530 pounds gained
530 divided by 200 = 2.65 ADG
2.65 x 205 = 543 pounds gained
543 + 70 (BW) = 613 pound adjusted 205 day weight
It's considerably more complicated than that.. Calves grow less as they get older, which really gives an advantage to early weaned/weighed calves with your formula
 

elkwc

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Nesikep":jjcseqj6 said:
LLBUX":jjcseqj6 said:
Here is how it applies-

Actual Weight- birthweight / age in days = average daily gain

ADG x 205 + birth weight = 205 day adjusted weight

For a 600 pound weight taken at 200 days Calf weighed 70 pounds at birth
600 pounds minus 70 pound BW =530 pounds gained
530 divided by 200 = 2.65 ADG
2.65 x 205 = 543 pounds gained
543 + 70 (BW) = 613 pound adjusted 205 day weight
It's considerably more complicated than that.. Calves grow less as they get older, which really gives an advantage to early weaned/weighed calves with your formula

Very well stated. The time when a calf is weighed also influences their yearling weight greatly. And some breeders know those "sweet spots".
 

elkwc

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elkwc":3j7ti8rt said:
Nesikep":3j7ti8rt said:
LLBUX":3j7ti8rt said:
Here is how it applies-

Actual Weight- birthweight / age in days = average daily gain

ADG x 205 + birth weight = 205 day adjusted weight

For a 600 pound weight taken at 200 days Calf weighed 70 pounds at birth
600 pounds minus 70 pound BW =530 pounds gained
530 divided by 200 = 2.65 ADG
2.65 x 205 = 543 pounds gained
543 + 70 (BW) = 613 pound adjusted 205 day weight
It's considerably more complicated than that.. Calves grow less as they get older, which really gives an advantage to early weaned/weighed calves with your formula

Very well stated. The time when a calf is weighed also influences their yearling weight greatly. And some breeders know those "sweet spots".
I'm not sure about every breed association but I know in some like mentioned above there are allowances for things like the dams age, ect. But when I take a calf to the auction I don't receive an adjustment because a calf's mother was 14 y/o or a 1st calf heifer. I would rather see the facts and let me do the adjusting.
 

dun

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The adjusted weight is like EPDs, it is meant to even the field for comparison. Hard if not impossible to compare the actual weaning weight if 1 calf is 160 days old and another is 300. If all people were interested in was actual weights you could hold calves an extra month or 2 and just report weaning weights. How useful would that information be when comparing the ability of the dam or sire be at siring/raising a calf. Just like EPDs, if you don;t like the data just ignore it and leave one more tool in the tool box.
 

BC

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dun":3aqkg3zy said:
The adjusted weight is like EPDs, it is meant to even the field for comparison. Hard if not impossible to compare the actual weaning weight if 1 calf is 160 days old and another is 300. If all people were interested in was actual weights you could hold calves an extra month or 2 and just report weaning weights. How useful would that information be when comparing the ability of the dam or sire be at siring/raising a calf. Just like EPDs, if you don;t like the data just ignore it and leave one more tool in the tool box.

Well said. You got what I was wanting to say in a clear and easy to understand way.
 

elkwc

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dun":146ogyhs said:
The adjusted weight is like EPDs, it is meant to even the field for comparison. Hard if not impossible to compare the actual weaning weight if 1 calf is 160 days old and another is 300. If all people were interested in was actual weights you could hold calves an extra month or 2 and just report weaning weights. How useful would that information be when comparing the ability of the dam or sire be at siring/raising a calf. Just like EPDs, if you don;t like the data just ignore it and leave one more tool in the tool box.
I was always taught data out is only as good as that put in. When you fudge it to make it look better instead of reflecting was is real then that data becomes irrevelant and creates a mirage that too many believe until the wreck has hit. Most of the commercial breeders I know have seen it and why at least 80% of them want real data. The bull calf I related too earlier in my estimation would of weaned around 840 lbs. That is by the way I was taught in the 60's and 70's. Today depending on his mothers age, ect the adjusted could be much higher. Again we each have to use what experience has taught us is reliable and avoid using what has proven is inaccurate and doesn't work. As a mechanical specialist I would remove a bad tool instead of using it. I feel the same applies here. If a breeder wants to supply it that is fine but if he wants to sell me a bull then he had better be willing to provide me with the needed good information so I can make an informed decision. I have found basing decisons on smoke and mirrors usually results in a wreck.

The P in EPD's stands for Prediction I believe. Look at how many are in a wreck because they believed all the precdictions that the cattle market would remain high for 5 years. I know of several who are losing everything.
 

Nesikep

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If you want a level playing field, the adjusted weaning weight formula that uses a non-linear daily gain is far less fudgable than the one you proposed.. I can wean my calves at 100 days and OMG they all have 4 lb/day gain! It looks just great on paper doesn't it?... There's a reason there's a certain window of time when calves need to be weighed, it's because in that window of time their growth closely matches the formula given.

Want to talk about fudged and unrealistic numbers? Lets talk about how they're fed.. I'd buy a bull that gained 3lb/day on grass alone any day before one that gained 5lb/day in a candy shop.. THAT is what fudges numbers...

So a few influential breeders all hold each others hands and pat each other on the back, they all feed a lot of grain, they all buy each others bulls and get calves from them that put out impressive numbers with that management system and the EPD's look really good.. even the accuracy is improving.. but since any commercial guy who doesn't feed grain, and who doesn't register the calves, all those calves with "ordinary" growth numbers are omitted from the database.. It's the one big flaw in the EPD system is that it pretty much omits all the calves grown in real world conditions because no rancher is going to put in the effort to do it for free.
 

farmerjan

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I can agree with Nesikep. We have bought a few bulls over the years and they have been "FED" to the "n"th degree. When they go out with the cows, on our forage/grass/get out and rustler your own grub kind of pastures, and then have to breed the cows, they fall apart. So we are VERY interested in whether that bull was crept fed as a calf, and what kind of feeding program he has been on since weaning. An old friend once said that if the cow can't make enough milk to wean a good calf, and the calf needs to go in to get extra feed to grow, then you need new cows. We have gotten to where we do pay alot of attention to that premise.
We will do a little cheating for some of our old "good" cows and offer some extra feed to the calves, but I am talking feeding 1-2 lbs of grain per calf a couple of times a week. Gets the calves more friendly, come into the pen through a creep gate, and they are easier to work around. But we don't do the creep feeding that is available to them 24/7. The cows have to calve, make MILK, breed back, and gain on grass. And the calves need to grow on momma's milk and start eating grass.
I also will offer some creep feed to calves on first calf heifers that we calve in the fall; same routine as above. We normally don't calve first calf heifers in the fall, and they won't get as much out of the hay as they would good grass pasture, so I guess you could say I cheat a little and "treat" the calves to a little extra. We have tried supplementing, with silage, the heifers too, but it hasn't made a big difference, so now they will also get some grain 2-3 times a week to the tune of maybe 1 lb per head. It also keeps them coming and I can work around them easier. The spring calving heifers only get a mouthful of grain once or so a week. so that when I want them in the pen, they come running when I call them. The calves might get a couple weeks worth of a little feed in the pen, before they get moved and go out to summer pastures. The grain is more of a "hey aren't you glad to see me, look at the treat I have for you"...kind of thing.
 

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