a tale of two twins

[angus9259]

Two cows - two sets of twins. One set DOA - the other, both calves are fine and momma has accepted them both. Thinking of grafting one of the twins to the now vacant cow instead of taking her (the cow) to the sale barn. In the past I had to skin of of the dam's dead calves and wrap the live calf in the skin. I ran the surrogate into the chute and let the calves nurse her from behind. She didn't complain though she doesn't recognize the calves as her own. I have the four animals behind my barn in their own pen now. Thoughts on the best approach?

1. let the momma who bore em, raise em and take the other to the sale barn.
2. let them come up together and hope the calves will nurse both
3. skin a dead calf and try to get the surrogate to actually think one is hers.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Graft the calf if possible. And keep your cow if she's a good one.

 

[Taurus]

Graft the calf and keep the cow. She will give you a bigger calf.

 

[angus9259]

Put surrogate in the chute and the calves nursed on her. They've nursed on both her and their natural mom now. surrogate has no interest in them. stripped the dead calf but surrogate didn't recognize that any more either. any suggestions? when will surrogate dry up if not nursed? I'm thinking I should try to allow the calves to nurse the surrogate in the chute once a day for the next couple of days and allow them free access to their momma as well - all while keeping the 4 in the barnyard together?

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Let the calves nurse her at least twice a day. We fostered a twin onto a two year old that lost her calf from being squished up against a bale ring. I was told by vet after the third day, she should accept the calf as her own. Once her milk comes through the calf, she will recognize the sent as her own and accept it. It worked for us, but I also poured a little grain on the calf to encourage the cow to lick the calf.
Twins are always tough, but stick with it!

 

[angus9259]

If I let the calves nurse the surrogate twice a day, they might not nurse their momma - won't be hungry. I was thinking let them nurse the surrogate once a day and their momma once a day. Or would it be best to just cut the cord, pick one to go with each cow and hope for the best? Problem is, if the surrogate doesn't work out, and natural momma move on, I've got a bottle baby and I don't need that.

Thanks.

 

[Chris H]

I'd split the twins so you only have one cow to deal with. We grafted a calf this spring and it took 20 days to get the cow to really take the calf well enough to turn them out. I tried all the tricks, short of skinning the dead calf; ultimately it was time that did the trick. I was really hating that cow about day 7, and it got worse. But she's back in good graces because she's done a terrific job raising the calf and is bred back.

 

[angus9259]

I'd split the twins so you only have one cow to deal with. We grafted a calf this spring and it took 20 days to get the cow to really take the calf well enough to turn them out. I tried all the tricks, short of skinning the dead calf; ultimately it was time that did the trick. I was really hating that cow about day 7, and it got worse. But she's back in good graces because she's done a terrific job raising the calf and is bred back.

You're more patient than me! This cow has till next week Tuesday (sale barn day) to make it happen. The only other time I've done this, I skinned the dead calf and it took about 3 days - skinning the calf was the trick there. But evidently this cow doesn't even recognize the dead calf so no sense skinning it. Both calves will still nurse off her in the chute and - for the first time - I saw BOTH cows turn and come back to the barn looking for the calves after I turned them out for grass and water.

 

[glacierridge]

Graft the calf and keep the cow. She will give you a bigger calf.

Yep then those babies won't have to share resources.

 

[glacierridge]

Usually after the milk goes thru the calf you'll be fine. We can get our mommas to take orphans pretty easy MOST of the time.

 

[angus9259]

Usually after the milk goes thru the calf you'll be fine. We can get our mommas to take orphans pretty easy MOST of the time.

A success story here as well - seemed to be the "milk through the calf" thing. Is that real or folklore??? At any rate, the surrogates milk went through both the bull and the heifer calf but the surrogate didn't like the bull calf so I split everyone up today. The surrogate is with the heifer and the dam with the bull. And all was right with the world . . . . until the next calf comes.....

 

[glacierridge]

Usually after the milk goes thru the calf you'll be fine. We can get our mommas to take orphans pretty easy MOST of the time.

A success story here as well - seemed to be the "milk through the calf" thing. Is that real or folklore??? At any rate, the surrogates milk went through both the bull and the heifer calf but the surrogate didn't like the bull calf so I split everyone up today. The surrogate is with the heifer and the dam with the bull. And all was right with the world . . . . until the next calf comes.....

I think it's real. Once they start passing stool and urine from the milk of the grafted cow, they smell "right" or at least right enough for them.
All cows have milk that varies just a little, a different "recipe" if you will.
We have some dams that just go and want to claim EVERY calf, but not many. Those are kind of amusing to deal with, that they wanna mother everything and everyone.

 

[glacierridge]

Something to do with ph balances and chemistry or something like that I'm sure...

At any rate, I'm glad it's working out, I hope that both calves take off for you.

 

[gizmom]

I learned something new in this thread good info. We have used really cheap perfume talcum powder put it on the cows nose and the calfs back it seems to work as well.

Thanks again for some good info, I am glad it worked out for you, twins are a pain in the hiney.

Gizmom

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Glad to hear it worked. We have only ever had two sets, and the second set the dam raised them both (we did not have an extra cow around). The funny thing, the cow that raised her own set of twins is the one that raised the extra twin the year before (because her calf got killed by being squished against the bale ring at night). So it turned out pretty great; she raised a calf when she lost her own, then gave us two the next year! They are the red bulls I have pictured several times.
Anyway, there is also a product out there called O No More, or something like that (O No Mo? - O meaning orphan). It is said to be a miracle worker, it is a powder that you sprinkle on the calf and the cow will immediately accept it. I have heard nothing but great reviews about, but have not had the opportunity to use it. I have been told you should keep a packet of it in your vet box, or supplies, and that way you will have it when you need it. Just for future reference!
Went and found the stuff: http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html ... b0d0204ae5