3 Way Cross

[cloud9cattle]

what do you all think of these crosses? What Crosses would you rock with in Central Texas? You have to start with a crossbred cow with a flick of ear. Mind You Im Located In Texas.

Cross Bred CowX Brahman
Off Spring 1 X Gelbvieh
Off Spring 2 X Simmie

Or

Cross Bred Cow X Angus
Off Spring 1 X Braford
Off Spring 2 X Simmie

 

[3waycross]

No offense but I would not even care to venture a guess as to what would work in Tejas.

There are far better sources of information regarding that genre than me!

I do not mean to be glib but apparently you have confused that fact that I sometimes appear to think I know it all with the undisputable certainty that I however DO NOT know it all.

:tiphat:

 

[branguscowgirl]

:lol: 3 way, I think that your name got in there by accident! :mrgreen:

Anyway, my opinion would be Brangus, Brangus and again with Brangus! But what do I know? :roll:

 

[TexasBred]

what do you all think of these crosses? What Crosses would you rock with in Central Texas? You have to start with a crossbred cow with a flick of ear. Mind You Im Located In Texas.

Cross Bred CowX Brahman
Off Spring 1 X Gelbvieh
Off Spring 2 X Simmie

Or

Cross Bred Cow X Angus
Off Spring 1 X Braford
Off Spring 2 X Simmie

What is the "cross bred cow" going to be?? Will determine everything else.

 

[RoanDurham]

Use two of the stabilized composites such as brangus, gert, braford etc, and do a two breed rotation from there.

 

[cloud9cattle]

Cross bred cows are brahman influenced Braford and brangus crossed cattle.

 

[Kingfisher]

North Texas, South Texas, Central Texas ?

 

[Caustic Burno]

North Texas, South Texas, Central Texas ?

East Texas?
Brangus is hard to beat I still think the F-1 Tiger out performs them all in longevity
and pounds across the scales.

 

[branguscowgirl]

North Texas, South Texas, Central Texas ?

East Texas?
Brangus is hard to beat I still think the F-1 Tiger out performs them all in longevity
and pounds across the scales.

;-) CB agrees with me! Right CB?

 

[wacocowboy]

in Central TX Brangus and Tigers do really good. If you go Brangus I would go with a Hereford bull and get baldies you can sell your heifers for replacements at top of the market price and your bull calves will be at the top in the sale barn. If you go Tiger I would go with a Char bull those calves will bring the best at the sale barn around here.

 

[Caustic Burno]

North Texas, South Texas, Central Texas ?

East Texas?
Brangus is hard to beat I still think the F-1 Tiger out performs them all in longevity
and pounds across the scales.

;-) CB agrees with me! Right CB?

Kinda of sorta no the Tiger is the queen of this country

I have posted this before good read look for other stuff by Riley.

http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

 

[Kingfisher]

I was just seeing if CB was payin attention. I lost my passport to East T a while back....
I say Beefmaster or F1 momma.

 

[cloud9cattle]

Crossbred cows would be moltey face brangus and brahman cross about 1/2 -1/4Ear Im located in the heart of central texas.

 

[RoanDurham]

Kinda of sorta no the Tiger is the queen of this country

I have posted this before good read look for other stuff by Riley.

http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

Brangus lost a lot of momentum around here due to not moderating size. I also think the aesthetic appeal of the tigers is as responsible for their perceived superiority as anything. I've seen many 15-1600lb brafords and I really question if these are the most profitable animals for their owners. The posted link assumes all else equal. When all else equal, we all agree the f1 braford expresses the most hybrid vigor thus being the most superior. What it somewhat over shadows is that fact that hybrid vigor can only account for so much and the individual quality of the initial stock is most imperative. One of my favorite lines- and I use it all the time is: "there is no substitute for the f1 female." Even I will admit this is only a part truth. There are purebred individuals in ever breed that will outperform f1's of any combination. Is this the norm? no--- but when comparing average f1s to the higher end individuals of any particular breed, the purebreds can and will outperform.

I'll also add that longevity is a double edge sword. A cow that lives into her late teens has clearly paid for herself and made her owner some money. A factor I think many overlook is that fact that the genetics of a 15yr old cow are behind. Literally. Not that all 'old' genetics are bad or useless, but I can assure you that in 15 years, my cowherd will be much closer to my goals than it is now. I would hope this hold true for us all.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Kinda of sorta no the Tiger is the queen of this country

I have posted this before good read look for other stuff by Riley.

http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

Brangus lost a lot of momentum around here due to not moderating size. I also think the aesthetic appeal of the tigers is as responsible for their perceived superiority as anything. I've seen many 15-1600lb brafords and I really question if these are the most profitable animals for their owners. The posted link assumes all else equal. When all else equal, we all agree the f1 braford expresses the most hybrid vigor thus being the most superior. What it somewhat over shadows is that fact that hybrid vigor can only account for so much and the individual quality of the initial stock is most imperative. One of my favorite lines- and I use it all the time is: "there is no substitute for the f1 female." Even I will admit this is only a part truth. There are purebred individuals in ever breed that will outperform f1's of any combination. Is this the norm? no--- but when comparing average f1s to the higher end individuals of any particular breed, the purebreds can and will outperform.

I'll also add that longevity is a double edge sword. A cow that lives into her late teens has clearly paid for herself and made her owner some money. A factor I think many overlook is that fact that the genetics of a 15yr old cow are behind. Literally. Not that all 'old' genetics are bad or useless, but I can assure you that in 15 years, my cowherd will be much closer to my goals than it is now. I would hope this hold true for us all.

In heat humidity and insects from heII there is no beating the Brimmer that is why 30% of the US cowherd is
Brahman influenced. You can't BS the commercial cattleman cause he is going to have what works in his environment and mashes down the scales at the barn. I culled cows in their 20's during the drought
that still had good teeth, BCS and calved every 12 months.
I went over to my old neighbors and toothed his out, of 30 head hauled off one cow had her teeth wore
down and everyone of them where in there mid 20's.
There is just no getting around the science that Brahman influenced cattle have superior longevity
and production.

 

[RoanDurham]

I'm a huge proponent of Brahman influenced cattle. Had purebred brangus for years.

Where we disagree is where you leave 'superior production' open ended as if ALL Brahman influenced cattle are superior to ALL straightbred cattle or even ALL British f1s.

 

[wacocowboy]

Kinda of sorta no the Tiger is the queen of this country

I have posted this before good read look for other stuff by Riley.

http://msucares.com/livestock/beef/geneticslunch4.pdf

Brangus lost a lot of momentum around here due to not moderating size. I also think the aesthetic appeal of the tigers is as responsible for their perceived superiority as anything. I've seen many 15-1600lb brafords and I really question if these are the most profitable animals for their owners. The posted link assumes all else equal. When all else equal, we all agree the f1 braford expresses the most hybrid vigor thus being the most superior. What it somewhat over shadows is that fact that hybrid vigor can only account for so much and the individual
quality of the initial stock is most imperative. One of my favorite lines- and I use it all the time is: "there is no substitute for the f1 female." Even I will admit this is only a part truth. There are purebred individuals in ever breed that will outperform f1's of any combination. Is this the norm? no--- but when comparing average f1s to the higher end individuals of any particular breed, the purebreds can and will outperform.

I'll also add that longevity is a double edge sword. A cow that lives into her late teens has clearly paid for herself and made her owner some money. A factor I think many overlook is that fact that the genetics of a 15yr old cow are behind. Literally. Not that all 'old' genetics are bad or useless, but I can assure you that in 15 years, my cowherd will be much closer to my goals than it is now. I would hope this hold true for us all.

In heat humidity and insects from heII there is no beating the Brimmer that is why 30% of the US cowherd is
Brahman influenced. You can't BS the commercial cattleman cause he is going to have what works in his environment and mashes down the scales at the barn. I culled cows in their 20's during the drought
that still had good teeth, BCS and calved every 12 months.
I went over to my old neighbors and toothed his out, of 30 head hauled off one cow had her teeth wore
down and everyone of them where in there mid 20's.
There is just no getting around the science that Brahman influenced cattle have superior longevity
and production.

In Texas I really wouldn't want a Momma who isn't at least 1/4 Brahma why my favorite cows are Beefmaster, Tigers, and Brangus. I have always said Brahma is like Ketchup makes everything better.

 

[cloud9cattle]

My problem with brangus is I have never been pleased with the cows. I like the bulls but the females leave alot to be desired. And I agree with the statement above that some braford cattle are just to large. I guess thats why I apperciate hereford brangus cross or hereford gert cross but even then i see to many herefords with bad udders. What do most people use on super baldies and braford cross cattle? We want replacements to build a herd.

 

[Caustic Burno]

My problem with brangus is I have never been pleased with the cows. I like the bulls but the females leave alot to be desired. And I agree with the statement above that some braford cattle are just to large. I guess thats why I apperciate hereford brangus cross or hereford gert cross but even then i see to many herefords with bad udders. What do most people use on super baldies and braford cross cattle? We want replacements to build a herd.

I hate to break this to you this is a life long journey and as soon as the last shovel of dirt lands on you
your cows on the way to the salebarn.
There is no perfect cow except for the Tiger .
You have to find what works in your environment and ruthless cull your herd.
If I was running super baldies I would most likely for terminal cross go with Char or Angus.
You really don't want to get to a 3 way cross cow for your herd cow you are getting to many crayons in the box.
There is a lot of scientific literature that the 3 way cross calf maximizes hybred vigor after that it you start losing.

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2755.pdf


Long read.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/an055

 

[RoanDurham]

^^^ good stuff- In a terminal situation, over non continental influenced cows, there is no substitute for a Charolais bull.


I would personally take the f1 super baldies over the brafords though-- a half brimmer cow isn't needed in North Texas.