2way and 3waycross explained.

[WalnutCrest]

About 1/3 ...of the national Aubrac herd in France is bred to double muscled Charolais bulls ... and ... they still lead all French breeds in calving ease. FWIW.

 

[True Grit Farms]

This isn't France, it seems like most folks in Europe babysit their cows, and with that kind of management you better.

 

[Gators Rule]

Agreed. It seems a lot of Europeans have no qualms pulling calves so not hard to believe they could be average or better. Personally I would run from the French double muscled breeds.

 

[Nesikep]

Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.

Following upon this after returning from my trip to France ... if I wanted to get a super three way rotation working, I'd start by contracting with the best Brahman females to AI them to either Aubrac or Murray Grey where you're buying all the heifers at a pre-agreed to formula ... then ... using either Aubrac or MG on them ... then Brahman on top of those.

At any time you wanted, you could throw a homozygous black bull in there to get black calves if you thought you needed some.

Good grief, those would be some great mamas.

Throw a terminal Char bull in the pasture for some real scale mashers...

Murray Gray have the color diluter gene don't they? Would make reliably getting black calves impossible if that's the case..


Other than Herf and Angus, What other british beef breeds are there?

 

[WalnutCrest]

Just to continue a thread that hasn't seen any action in a while ...

The more distantly relayed the three breeds, the more significant the heterosis. For example:

(Continental x Sanga) x Indicus
(British x Indicus) x Sanga
(Sanga x Indicus) x either British or Continental

...provide far more heterosis than (British x British) x Continental.

Following upon this after returning from my trip to France ... if I wanted to get a super three way rotation working, I'd start by contracting with the best Brahman females to AI them to either Aubrac or Murray Grey where you're buying all the heifers at a pre-agreed to formula ... then ... using either Aubrac or MG on them ... then Brahman on top of those.

At any time you wanted, you could throw a homozygous black bull in there to get black calves if you thought you needed some.

Good grief, those would be some great mamas.

Throw a terminal Char bull in the pasture for some real scale mashers...

Murray Gray have the color diluter gene don't they? Would make reliably getting black calves impossible if that's the case..

Other than Herf and Angus, What other british beef breeds are there?

Shorthorn
Galloway
Scottish Highland

...and two (ish) weeks ago, I saw the only herd of Sussex cattle in North America.

 

[WalnutCrest]

This isn't France, it seems like most folks in Europe babysit their cows, and with that kind of management you better.

Agreed. It seems a lot of Europeans have no qualms pulling calves so not hard to believe they could be average or better. Personally I would run from the French double muscled breeds.

You both did a nice job of painting with a broad brush.

If you've been over there and have first-hand knowledge of breed-specific practices, they feel free to provide an informed opinion.

French Aubrac breeders have a different mindset than the European breeders of other types of cattle.

One of the things I've found with dealing with the French, re: all their breeds is they're not afraid of the things that make the breed they raise different than the breeds raised by others, and take great pride in promoting pure strains. North Americans are the ones busy w/ the crosses and mutts --- heterosis is free, afterall (assuming the bulls being used are not actually mongrels with papers).

 

[Stocker Steve]

Devon

 

[Stocker Steve]

I have one registered Devon and a couple Devon x Simi cross heifers from her. Devons were a dual purpose breed not too long ago, and mine are moderate and mild and heavy milking. They don't look like muscled up winners at the fair, and they don't grow quite as fast as the modern terminal angus, but they do look like the profitable kind of momma cows to me.

 

[Gators Rule]

This isn't France, it seems like most folks in Europe babysit their cows, and with that kind of management you better.

Agreed. It seems a lot of Europeans have no qualms pulling calves so not hard to believe they could be average or better. Personally I would run from the French double muscled breeds.

You both did a nice job of painting with a broad brush.

If you've been over there and have first-hand knowledge of breed-specific practices, they feel free to provide an informed opinion.

French Aubrac breeders have a different mindset than the European breeders of other types of cattle.

One of the things I've found with dealing with the French, re: all their breeds is they're not afraid of the things that make the breed they raise different than the breeds raised by others, and take great pride in promoting pure strains. North Americans are the ones busy w/ the crosses and mutts --- heterosis is free, afterall (assuming the bulls being used are not actually mongrels with papers).

They don't have have to be afraid while they're promoting their 'pure strain" over there in their pure strain pasture. However, you posted your input on a 2way and 3way cross thread, and that generally means commercial cattle, and I see train wrecks breeding a lot of those double muscled bulls in non-babysitting commercial cross breeding scenarios.

Incidentally, your blessing is not a requirement. We do not have to agree on what you consider to be an informed opinion.

 

[WalnutCrest]

GR ... it appears your reading comprehension is challenged.

I suggested that reasonable evidence of Aubracs tendency to be easy calving cattle is that, despite approximately 1/3rd of Aubracs in France (where they are pretty well tied with Saler in terms of beef numbers, behind Charolais, Limousin and Blonde) are bred to double muscled bulls, they still lead all French breeds in the fewest percentage of assisted births.

I was not suggested anyone in the USA breed any of their cows to double muscled bulls ... especially if there's not a reasonable task record of success.

To build a great commercial 2x or 3x bred commercial cow, it helps to start with great building blocks. I'm sure we can agree on that...

 

[Nesikep]

*duh*.. don't know how I missed shorthorn considering my whole herd has SH influence! Brain fart!

 

[Gators Rule]

WC, you apparently feel the need to insult others if they happen to post something contrary in the slightest way to your line of thinking... Regardless of how low you think of my intellect level, that is a character flaw.

 

[WalnutCrest]

WC, you apparently feel the need to insult others if they happen to post something contrary in the slightest way to your line of thinking... Regardless of how low you think of my intellect level, that is a character flaw.

I'm not afraid of people posting things contrary to my line of thinking if the things posted are grounded in something besides pithy generalities only moderately related (or possibly entirely unrelated) to the subject at hand.

I'm also not much for insulting others; if you feel I insulted you, that was not my intent. It was my intent to try to clear up a misperception about Aubracs specifically and French cattle husbandry generally -- and based on the huge number of Aubrac breeders on this MB ( :lol2: ), we can both be pretty confident that nobody else is going to clear it up besides me. If I came off too strongly, again, that wasn't my intent. Please pardon me.

As to character flaws, I have many. If you'd like me to give you a list, I'm happy to oblige.

 

[ez14.]

As to character flaws, I have many. If you'd like me to give you a list, I'm happy to oblige.

I bet that's a long list! :hide: :lol:

If I tried to list all of mine we'd be here all day :lol:

 

[ranchersswiss]

Wow! This is really interesting. Thanks for sharing this!

 

[OzssieDave19]

Well the above argument could go on for ever.........speaking of 3 way breeding. I have 2x Angus x Hereford cows with Heifers by the Charolais Bill at foot, about 6 months old. I am going to keep them as replacement cows. Anyone done that? Tell me all about it. What bull should I put over them? I am a hobby farmer, the grey Heifers are quiet and know my block. This decision was not just made on breed. Cheers Dave.