10% to 100% Increase

[Frankie]

With reserves being so tight speculators can make the market turn upside down now.

That is another big piece of the puzzle that we have not delved into until you brought it up.

Stock market guys have a big part in the sharp increases and decreases in price per gallon. Every time the idiot from Iran speaks in public the Stock Market speculators go crazy. Every time the Libs scare us with Global Warming going to make us have a bad hurricane season the speculators go crazy. That happened last year when they said we would have another bad hurricane season prices jumped. But then when it proved not to happen we saw some fast drops in per gallon pricing as they started selling.

There is a lot bigger picture here, than just the Oil companies and Current administration being evil. There is a lot of small parts that make this wheel turn.

There are others involved. But that doesn't change the fact that big oil compaines are posting record profits, year after year since the current administration took office. For Campground to say they "target" .01 when the article clearly says the industry is making much more is....let's say "intersting". I don't doubt for a moment that's their target, but do you honestly believe that's what they're making today when others are making .94? In the article, EXXON actually had a decrease in oil profits but made up the difference in refining. But if it makes you feel better, continue to make excuses for the oil industry when you fill up that tank.

 

[Frankie]

I wonder why we hear constantly about how we need to get rid of our dependency on foreign oil, but then when prices go high on gas it is all the American Oil companies or the Presidents fault for it?

They're not "American" companies. You heard Halliburton (they're not an oil company) is moving their headquarters to Dubai? The big oil companies are true international companies. They have offices around the world. Around here gasoline is available from a British company, a Venzeula company as well as "American" companies and it's ALL PRICED THE SAME.

Seems if we are buying a large part of our oil from other countries on a world market then how can American Companies be all to blame?

Gasoline comes into this country in pipelines or on tankers. It's then put through various processes to add or subtract whatever the particular company adds or subrtacts to make the product meet their standards. CA has their own rules and gasoline for them is probably the most processed gas in the country.

Why when any increase in gas happened under Carter or Clinton, it was OPEC's fault, but now it is Bush and his Oil buddies fault?

I don't remember gas taking a big jump under Clinton. Will you please post something showing that it did AND STAYED HIGH. Gas has always gone up just before the summer driving season and just before winter when a lot of fuel oil is used. But in the past, it's gone back down when those periods were over. But not now. It's gone up, up, up. Small drops, yes, but not for long. Carter got caught up in the Iranian Revolution and was at odds with Iran. During that period, Arab countries took control of their oil reserves. That's when we stopped having a true competitive oil industry, or the beginning. Look around. Does the gas at EXXON cost more/less than the gas at Shell or BP? If one goes up, does the other?

A history of OPEC: http://www.opec.org/aboutus/history/history.htm

 

[Frankie]

Overview

In 2000, 82% of the revenues came from refining and marketing; 10% from exploration and production; 8% from Chemicals, 8%

Just a quick overview if you were looking at a prospectus if you know what that is. Hmm marketing and refining. Lets see they have 2 million barrels a day refining capacity in the USA if you look them up. Thats an astronomical amout of gallons a day.

Found this one also I wonder how much this puts on the bottom line.

The Friendswood Development Company, a subsidiary of Exxon, designs and develops master-planned communities in the Houston area.

The Friendswood Development Company, in a joint venture with King Ranch, purchased land from the Foster Lumber Company, and created the master-planned community of Kingwood, Texas.

2000 was a LONG time ago. And no link to the article, of course. What were we paying for gasoline in 2000? Does anyone remember? Doesn't matter, Caustic, how you spin. We know how much profit EXXON earned in the last quarter. it was up 10%. And we know they didn't earn a measly .01 per gallon. The article I posted said:

"Exxon Mobil reported a $9.3 billion profit for the first quarter, up 10 percent, while Chevron reported $4.7 billion for the first quarter, up from $4 billion for the same period last year. The segment of Exxon's business that includes the refineries earned $1.9 billion in profits, up $641 million."

"Financial results released this week by Exxon Mobil Corp. and Chevron Corp. showed higher profits for the first quarter even with lower earnings from crude oil sales. Both companies credited higher refinery margins for helping to make up the difference."

Same link: http://www.kansascity.com/194/story/86901.html

How do they get higher refining margins? They either cut expenses seriously or charge more for their product. We know which they chose to do.

 

[Frankie]

I'll answer my own question. From April 2000:

"Retail gasoline prices (regular grade) are expected to average $1.46 per gallon, 25 percent higher than last summer's average of $1.17 per gallon. That projection also exceeds the previous (current-dollar) record summer average of $1.35 recorded in 1981. Nominal prices are expected to reach a peak of $1.52 per gallon in April—a new record--and decline steadily to $1.39 per gallon by September due to the impact of increases in world-wide crude oil production. These projections presume no disruptions of refinery motor gasoline production."

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/sp ... mogas.html

Almost makes me want to cry. They projected a new record @$1.52.

 

[Alice]

Well, there it is...and it's from a .gov source...

Alice

 

[backhoeboogie]

Well, there it is...and it's from a .gov source...

Alice

Yes Alice.

Mitch was talking about the cost of farming in this thread originally before it got hi-jacked. Fertilizer is way up and the biggest factor for me.

But since you credit that article, let's see, $1.35 per gallon in 1981. That year premium farmland went for $650 an acre here. You remember it I am sure. You can't touch that same land for less than $9K now. Just saw an $8-1/2K offer for some land bought for $500 an acre in '79 and they offer was turned down. So if fuel prices rose at the same rate as land prices, we could expect to be paying something in the neighborhood of just over $18 a gallon.

If we could still buy land and fuel at 1981 prices, there would probably be many more people in this hobby.

We all hope to make profits. Every business in Stephenville that take your nickels for your purchases each week strive to make a profit. Some of them have higher profit margins than eXxon. They simply don't deal in the same volume.

The kids starting today looking at the price of land don't really have a chance inthis area, and you know that Alice. If they could get land back to the '81 prices, today's fuel costs would be insignificant.

From Frankie's view, the government should do something about the greedy land owners who demand so much money for their property.

Without a buying market for property, prices wouldn't be so high. Same for gas.

We need to become more innovative in our grass farming methodology. We also need to conserve and squeeze everything we can. Cattle are likely to end up going the route that poultry and pork went.

Do you remember when everyone had chickens and a hog pen? I am sure you do. If a stranger asked where he could buy a pig, you probably had several sources that came to mind.

When you read back through this thread, you can see who is advising thrift, and who is whining. It would be nice if gas was at '81 prices. But I'd take '81 land prices in that stead.

 

[Alice]

I'm not sure that Frankie is advocating govt. controls on anything...at least she hasn't written that.

My beef is a lot more basic...if the little guy is expected to suck it up and deal with it, then the CEO's should be held to the same standards...i.e, we should turn up/down our thermostats...we should curtail driving...we should conserve. Fine, well and good. So should EVERYONE!

I proposed that the CEO's turn up/down their thermostats in their 20,000 + sq. ft. houses...that they should curtail the excessive use of their private jets (talk about fuel consumption!)...and somehow, that was turned into advocating socialism :shock: ...when it's simply advocating setting by example if nothing else.

As Frankie said, I believe, why should I cut back and do without comforts to help conserve when the CEO's flagrantly flaunt their toys and comforts simply because they CAN?

Now show me where that is a socialistic point of view...and please, do it simply because afterwhile my eyes start to glass over when facts and numbers get crunched the way they've been getting crunched here.

And remember, I'm talking about the mega wealthy CEOs, only.

Alice

 

[Frankie]

Well, there it is...and it's from a .gov source...

Alice

Yes Alice.

Mitch was talking about the cost of farming in this thread originally before it got hi-jacked. Fertilizer is way up and the biggest factor for me.

But since you credit that article, let's see, $1.35 per gallon in 1981. That year premium farmland went for $650 an acre here. You remember it I am sure. You can't touch that same land for less than $9K now. Just saw an $8-1/2K offer for some land bought for $500 an acre in '79 and they offer was turned down. So if fuel prices rose at the same rate as land prices, we could expect to be paying something in the neighborhood of just over $18 a gallon.

Why 1981? Caustic posted an article about EXXON in 2000. Do you know what EXXON's profits were in 1981? Until we can compare those, it's apples and oranges.

If we could still buy land and fuel at 1981 prices, there would probably be many more people in this hobby.

We all hope to make profits. Every business in Stephenville that take your nickels for your purchases each week strive to make a profit. Some of them have higher profit margins than eXxon. They simply don't deal in the same volume.

The kids starting today looking at the price of land don't really have a chance inthis area, and you know that Alice. If they could get land back to the '81 prices, today's fuel costs would be insignificant.

If fuel wasn't so outlandishly priced, many things would be cheaper than they are. Land is getting more expensive everywhere as the rich get richer and want a little place in the country.

From Frankie's view, the government should do something about the greedy land owners who demand so much money for their property.

Manure.

Without a buying market for property, prices wouldn't be so high. Same for gas.

Not a true comparison. :roll: The oil companies have a monoloply. Land is mostly owned by individuals. But keep spinning.

We need to become more innovative in our grass farming methodology. We also need to conserve and squeeze everything we can. Cattle are likely to end up going the route that poultry and pork went.

Do you remember when everyone had chickens and a hog pen? I am sure you do. If a stranger asked where he could buy a pig, you probably had several sources that came to mind.

When you read back through this thread, you can see who is advising thrift, and who is whining. It would be nice if gas was at '81 prices. But I'd take '81 land prices in that stead.

Caustic a whiner! What a surprise. I never would have thought you'd say that. :lol: :lol:

 

[backhoeboogie]

Caustic a whiner! What a surprise. I never would have thought you'd say that. :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the good laugh. I got a hearty one. Seriously. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The 1981 figures came out of your link Frankie. I don't remember the 2000 numbers but can go back AGAIN through the thread.

BAck to your point, Exxon wasn't the same company then. Neither was microsoft. I remember when everyone was dumping Exxon stock after the Valdez incident and their stock was considered one of the best "Value Equity" stocks on the market. It was tempting to buy it but my ethics wouldn't let me. Don't remember the exact year.

I've got it a whole lot better than my parent's had it. I saw dad go under farming and know the heartbreak of what drought can do. It took something out of him that never came back. But it made a better person of me.

Executives are going to be high salaried. That is the way it is. Professional athletes wouldn't make millions of dollars if people didn't pay to see them play or watch them on television. There is a lot of whining about athlete's salaries too. Oh well. Should the government ban athletic competition too? Some wish they would.

My family is not eating dry bologna sandwiches. I do remember what that is like. I also remember wishing I had a nickel for milk at the cafeteria in grade school. I remember it well enough to ensure my grandchildren never experience the feeling.

I live below my means and I have a good life. Some things are within my control or within my circle of influence. Some things are not. I have to accept the things that are not.

Thrift is building your own equipment and such. I take great pride in my working pens. The vertical hay cradles I built out of old junk trampoline frames are great too. Those cradles result in much less wasted hay, less teeth grinding, and better efficiency altogether. Now I am looking for more efficiency. I am not going to outsource the cattle and fields to a foreign soil.

I do indeed own a $50K pick-up and diesel is expensive. I have a grandma wife now who enjoys buying for the grandbabies. We have splurge considerably in the past decade. But we have not lived beyond our means. My wife and I both went to college, paying our way. We earned it. If she wants to "splurge" a little on those grandbabies, I simply smile, because that is beyond my control also :lol:

 

[mitchwi]

Well, there it is...and it's from a .gov source...

Alice

Yes Alice.

Mitch was talking about the cost of farming in this thread originally before it got hi-jacked. Fertilizer is way up and the biggest factor for me.

But since you credit that article, let's see, $1.35 per gallon in 1981. That year premium farmland went for $650 an acre here. You remember it I am sure. You can't touch that same land for less than $9K now. Just saw an $8-1/2K offer for some land bought for $500 an acre in '79 and they offer was turned down. So if fuel prices rose at the same rate as land prices, we could expect to be paying something in the neighborhood of just over $18 a gallon.

If we could still buy land and fuel at 1981 prices, there would probably be many more people in this hobby.

We all hope to make profits. Every business in Stephenville that take your nickels for your purchases each week strive to make a profit. Some of them have higher profit margins than eXxon. They simply don't deal in the same volume.

The kids starting today looking at the price of land don't really have a chance inthis area, and you know that Alice. If they could get land back to the '81 prices, today's fuel costs would be insignificant.

From Frankie's view, the government should do something about the greedy land owners who demand so much money for their property.

Without a buying market for property, prices wouldn't be so high. Same for gas.

We need to become more innovative in our grass farming methodology. We also need to conserve and squeeze everything we can. Cattle are likely to end up going the route that poultry and pork went.

Do you remember when everyone had chickens and a hog pen? I am sure you do. If a stranger asked where he could buy a pig, you probably had several sources that came to mind.

When you read back through this thread, you can see who is advising thrift, and who is whining. It would be nice if gas was at '81 prices. But I'd take '81 land prices in that stead.

I have been following this thread without comment, except for my original post, and I have to say there are valid opinions and facts on everyone's side.

With that being said, call it a blessing or a curse, but we do not farm for a living. My husband and I make a decent living, some would even say better than average. Whether good $ times or $ bad we live within, or below our means. We have never bought a new car, pack our lunches, etc.

We enjoy farming.... but we need to watch the costs... if it cannot sustain itself at a minimum, then we will end the farming.

I have not received a bill or bought something this year that is less now than it was 1 year ago, or 10 years ago. With increases of 10% to 400% on items the sustain itself is going to be more than difficult. I did not receive a 10% raise in my pay this year, I am hoping cattle will be up way more than last year...is this reality tho?

I say more power to the CEO or the whoevers that can bring home 7 digits a year. I will do what I have to in order to survive and thrive.

My grandma was a smart lady, and I will end with a couple of her sayings... "The more you make, the more you spend."

Or how about her other one, which I really like... "It's not how much you made, it's how much you saved." This is the one I try my hardest to live by (financially).

Michele

 

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic a whiner! What a surprise. I never would have thought you'd say that. :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the good laugh. I got a hearty one. Seriously. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The 1981 figures came out of your link Frankie. I don't remember the 2000 numbers but can go back AGAIN through the thread.

BAck to your point, Exxon wasn't the same company then. Neither was microsoft. I remember when everyone was dumping Exxon stock after the Valdez incident and their stock was considered one of the best "Value Equity" stocks on the market. It was tempting to buy it but my ethics wouldn't let me. Don't remember the exact year.

I've got it a whole lot better than my parent's had it. I saw dad go under farming and know the heartbreak of what drought can do. It took something out of him that never came back. But it made a better person of me.

Executives are going to be high salaried. That is the way it is. Professional athletes wouldn't make millions of dollars if people didn't pay to see them play or watch them on television. There is a lot of whining about athlete's salaries too. Oh well. Should the government ban athletic competition too? Some wish they would.

My family is not eating dry bologna sandwiches. I do remember what that is like. I also remember wishing I had a nickel for milk at the cafeteria in grade school. I remember it well enough to ensure my grandchildren never experience the feeling.

I live below my means and I have a good life. Some things are within my control or within my circle of influence. Some things are not. I have to accept the things that are not.

Thrift is building your own equipment and such. I take great pride in my working pens. The vertical hay cradles I built out of old junk trampoline frames are great too. Those cradles result in much less wasted hay, less teeth grinding, and better efficiency altogether. Now I am looking for more efficiency. I am not going to outsource the cattle and fields to a foreign soil.

I do indeed own a $50K pick-up and diesel is expensive. I have a grandma wife now who enjoys buying for the grandbabies. We have splurge considerably in the past decade. But we have not lived beyond our means. My wife and I both went to college, paying our way. We earned it. If she wants to "splurge" a little on those grandbabies, I simply smile, because that is beyond my control also :lol:

Boogie your argueing with a poor bitter woman as I have been guilty of as well. It is easy to read the people that have trouble managing money or are jealous of other peoples lot in life.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I'm not sure that Frankie is advocating govt. controls on anything...at least she hasn't written that.

My beef is a lot more basic...if the little guy is expected to suck it up and deal with it, then the CEO's should be held to the same standards...i.e, we should turn up/down our thermostats...we should curtail driving...we should conserve. Fine, well and good. So should EVERYONE!

I proposed that the CEO's turn up/down their thermostats in their 20,000 + sq. ft. houses...that they should curtail the excessive use of their private jets (talk about fuel consumption!)...and somehow, that was turned into advocating socialism :shock: ...when it's simply advocating setting by example if nothing else.

As Frankie said, I believe, why should I cut back and do without comforts to help conserve when the CEO's flagrantly flaunt their toys and comforts simply because they CAN?

Now show me where that is a socialistic point of view...and please, do it simply because afterwhile my eyes start to glass over when facts and numbers get crunched the way they've been getting crunched here.

And remember, I'm talking about the mega wealthy CEOs, only.

Alice

Alice, I am really tired of blabbing on this thread. More innovative ideas and concepts to employ would be nice and I am looking forward to more discoveries.

Most everything in your above post is beyond my control. But, there are some good consumers unions folks can join if they are truly interested. It is not much, but it is more toward a circle of influence and it can give you a feeling of control. Atleast it unites folks in common directions.

As far as "cutting back". I hope to never have to eat bologna again. But, I would do it if it meant my grandchildren didn't have to. We were thrifty as could be back when. We had to be. Now we are thrifty because we want a better life for our children and grandchildren.

Alice, I do enjoy your free thinking. But there is no need in me wasting my time, or whining, about something that is beyond my control. I enjoy the free enterprise system and my vote will always be cast in that direction.

 

[Gate Opener]

Caustic a whiner! What a surprise. I never would have thought you'd say that. :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the good laugh. I got a hearty one. Seriously. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The 1981 figures came out of your link Frankie. I don't remember the 2000 numbers but can go back AGAIN through the thread.

BAck to your point, Exxon wasn't the same company then. Neither was microsoft. I remember when everyone was dumping Exxon stock after the Valdez incident and their stock was considered one of the best "Value Equity" stocks on the market. It was tempting to buy it but my ethics wouldn't let me. Don't remember the exact year.

I've got it a whole lot better than my parent's had it. I saw dad go under farming and know the heartbreak of what drought can do. It took something out of him that never came back. But it made a better person of me.

Executives are going to be high salaried. That is the way it is. Professional athletes wouldn't make millions of dollars if people didn't pay to see them play or watch them on television. There is a lot of whining about athlete's salaries too. Oh well. Should the government ban athletic competition too? Some wish they would.

My family is not eating dry bologna sandwiches. I do remember what that is like. I also remember wishing I had a nickel for milk at the cafeteria in grade school. I remember it well enough to ensure my grandchildren never experience the feeling.

I live below my means and I have a good life. Some things are within my control or within my circle of influence. Some things are not. I have to accept the things that are not.

Thrift is building your own equipment and such. I take great pride in my working pens. The vertical hay cradles I built out of old junk trampoline frames are great too. Those cradles result in much less wasted hay, less teeth grinding, and better efficiency altogether. Now I am looking for more efficiency. I am not going to outsource the cattle and fields to a foreign soil.

I do indeed own a $50K pick-up and diesel is expensive. I have a grandma wife now who enjoys buying for the grandbabies. We have splurge considerably in the past decade. But we have not lived beyond our means. My wife and I both went to college, paying our way. We earned it. If she wants to "splurge" a little on those grandbabies, I simply smile, because that is beyond my control also :lol:

Backhoe,

You should have been in school with my husband. He had a girl in his class that he had no interest in whatsoever who would "borrow" milk money everyday. He felt sorry for her. I said you mean you went without milk for her and he said no I had extra money. I said how?,I only had enough for my lunch and he said that his dad who went through the depression would give them extra money because he wanted to make sure they had enough money for food.

The thing I am striving for (my goal) is a bible quote that says "A good man leaves an inheritance for his children's children."

I applaud you for taking care of your grandchildren.

 

[Alice]

I'm not sure that Frankie is advocating govt. controls on anything...at least she hasn't written that.

My beef is a lot more basic...if the little guy is expected to suck it up and deal with it, then the CEO's should be held to the same standards...i.e, we should turn up/down our thermostats...we should curtail driving...we should conserve. Fine, well and good. So should EVERYONE!

I proposed that the CEO's turn up/down their thermostats in their 20,000 + sq. ft. houses...that they should curtail the excessive use of their private jets (talk about fuel consumption!)...and somehow, that was turned into advocating socialism :shock: ...when it's simply advocating setting by example if nothing else.

As Frankie said, I believe, why should I cut back and do without comforts to help conserve when the CEO's flagrantly flaunt their toys and comforts simply because they CAN?

Now show me where that is a socialistic point of view...and please, do it simply because afterwhile my eyes start to glass over when facts and numbers get crunched the way they've been getting crunched here.

And remember, I'm talking about the mega wealthy CEOs, only.

Alice

Alice, I am really tired of blabbing on this thread. More innovative ideas and concepts to employ would be nice and I am looking forward to more discoveries.

Most everything in your above post is beyond my control. But, there are some good consumers unions folks can join if they are truly interested. It is not much, but it is more toward a circle of influence and it can give you a feeling of control. Atleast it unites folks in common directions.

As far as "cutting back". I hope to never have to eat bologna again. But, I would do it if it meant my grandchildren didn't have to. We were thrifty as could be back when. We had to be. Now we are thrifty because we want a better life for our children and grandchildren.

Alice, I do enjoy your free thinking. But there is no need in me wasting my time, or whining, about something that is beyond my control. I enjoy the free enterprise system and my vote will always be cast in that direction.

Well, of course it's beyond your control...it's beyond my control...it's beyond everyone's control. It is, however, galling to have someone state unequivocably that we all should cut back...like we all haven't and don't.

You guys aren't the only ones that had to do without. I didn't do without as a child, but as a single mother, you bet your sweet uh huh I did without...and I didn't take a nickle from anyone or any agency to do it...not even my parents when they offered it.

And when we started raising holstein bull calves for the feedlots, I worked half days at Tarleton so I could get health insurance coverage, came home and fed the calves, and then cleaned office buildings at night to make land payments, 2 pickup payments, and a utility vehicle payment, plus electric bill payments...plus, plus, plus.

We've all done w/o to have what we have, and dammed if I'm gonna listen to someone tell me I can't and haven't managed my finances properly and I whine.

Good day to all!

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

It is, however, galling to have someone state unequivocably that we all should cut back...like we all haven't and don't.

Good day to all!

Alice

I did not take Caustics comments the same as you! I did not take it that he said we should all cut back. I took it as personal responsibility that if we are going to whine about things then we should be conserving and taking care of the problem ourselves instead of trying to begrudge or regulate a private enterprise from being successful.

And that Americans as a whole are wasteful, we like to waste and then whine about high prices. Sure some on here maybe including your self, might conserve but as for a General statement what Caustic said is 100% accurate.

SUV's and Pickups are the top sellers of cars. Families own more cars now than any other time in History. We have a since of entitlement and that we are suppose to have all these things. Well we are only suppose to have the things we work and can afford. It is not the responsibility of the Oil Companies or Government to guarantee us that we can drive SUV's and Eat out 5 times a week.

If we can afford these things then more power to us! Many things I do not cut back on because I can afford them. I waste gas as much as the next person. On weekends sometimes I meet my wife at a Job 30 miles away, I drive separate, my son meets us there we drive 3 cars to do one job, just so we can all do other things before and afterwards. But I do not blame the Oil companies for my waste or cost of living.

If they raise gas prices I will use less or make more! That is the only thing I can do about the situation, what they do is out of my hands.

I am just happy that life is better financially now than it was in the 80's when we had that cheap gas. Gas might cost more but most of us own more and do more than we did in the 80's. Sure we pay more for Gas but that is just one small piece of our financial well being.

I can remember being married in 86 and owning one car. Now almost all young people getting married have two. I can remember living in a house I bought for $5,000.00 but I see youths today buy nicer bigger homes than I could have afforded at their age. I remember going to see a movie once a month, but now young married couples play every weekend.

 

[aplusmnt]

I don't remember gas taking a big jump under Clinton. Will you please post something showing that it did AND STAYED HIGH.

If you remember there was a rise and stink going on just a few months before Bush took office. Prices were already rising, partly due to the fact Clinton spent the previous 7 years doing nothing or actually hurting things by vetoing legislation that would increase oil production in the U.S.

If you notice below the oil companies profits rose 500% in one year under Clinton! ;-) Why was Clinton dipping into oil reserves if prices were stable during his term?

Basically Bush inherited Clinton's lack of energy policy, and the start of rising gas prices as he came into office.

then came 911, war in Afghanistan, war in Iraq, major instability in the Middle East, threat of War with Iran.

With all that going on we should be happy gas is not $5.00 per gallon like in European Countries.


2000 Under Clinton

President Clinton stated that he could find "no economic explanation" for the ever-increasing gasoline prices since the beginning of June and has ordered the Federal Trade Commission to supoena major oil companies in an investigation into possible collusion, price-gouging, or antitrust violations. Vice President Gore noted that major oil company profits have soared 500% in the first part of the year. Several other theories circulating include a CRS report that attributed the higher Midwest gasoline price - about 50 cents more per gallon than the rest of the country - to five factors including higher crude oil prices, low inventories, pipeline problems and most importantly, the use of reformulated gas (RFG). The report stated that the patented RFG process uses ethanol which raises the price of purification, may be responsible for approximately half of the Midwest's price increase. Critics say that the reformulated gas only requires 9 cents more per gallon to produce. House Science Committtee Chair James Sensenbrenner and other members of the House are hoping for a temporary lift of EPA regulations. Other short-term remedies to lower gasoline costs include dipping into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR), or relying on the recent small increases in production that some Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries have agreed to. (6/22/00)



Nice to see Clinton would help Gore out since gas prices and heating oil were rising so much it could hurt his chance of beating Bush in the coming election ;-) :lol:

Energy has remained a hot topic in Washington and on the campaign trail. After Vice President Al Gore urged President Clinton to help ease the tight market for heating oil by releasing reserves from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR), Clinton directed Secretary of Energy Bill Richardson to release 30 million barrels from SPR.


And then the spin, as I said when it was Clinton in office it was OPEC's fault now it is Bush's :roll:

Background
The current high price of gasoline is related to a series of events involving crude oil prices that date back to November of 1997. At this time OPEC unwittingly increased production rates while the Asian economy experienced a serious financial crisis, causing the price of crude oil to drop to record lows. Because OPEC nations suffered so much from this period of low prices, they are now extremely sensitive to price fluctuations in the petroleum market. Political and economic disputes within and between oil producing nations did not allow for a decrease in crude oil production until late in 1998. Production was drastically decreased in 1999 to counteract the effects of overproduction in 1998, driving the price back up to normal levels. However, it now appears that OPEC may have over adjusted for the price dip, and produced too little to keep up with rising demands. Refineries in turn decreased storage amounts, leading to the heating oil crisis in the North-east United States earlier this year and the unusually high gasoline prices consumers are currently experiencing. Further information on this topic can be found on the web at

http://www.agiweb.org/gap/legis106/oil_price.html

 

[Caustic Burno]

Aplus this a money management issue or the lack of.
Many Americans work for their money very few have their money working for them. If you take 10,000 dollars price of a half dozen cows and bought a varible annuity at 30 with the going rate and only contributed 50 dollars a month you would have nearly 350,000 dollars in your accountat retirement. Heck its tax free interest all contributions are tax deductible up to 4000 bucks. You will never get six old cows to pay you a return like that.
With a decent portfolio manager it could easily be 750,000 off a 10,000 dollar investment.

It's just easier to be jealous and whine than think and work smart.

 

[Frankie]

I don't remember gas taking a big jump under Clinton. Will you please post something showing that it did AND STAYED HIGH.

If you remember there was a rise and stink going on just a few months before Bush took office. Prices were already rising, partly due to the fact Clinton spent the previous 7 years doing nothing or actually hurting things by vetoing legislation that would increase oil production in the U.S.

Spin. Republicans had Congress for 12 years, six with the White House, too. What kind of energy policy did they come up with? It hasn't affected the price of gasoline.

If you notice below the oil companies profits rose 500% in one year under Clinton! ;-) Why was Clinton dipping into oil reserves if prices were stable during his term?

Don't know. But you haven't shown that gasoline prices and oil company profits rose and stayed up under Clinton like they have under Bush. I'm waiting.

Basically Bush inherited Clinton's lack of energy policy, and the start of rising gas prices as he came into office.

And the energy policy Bush and Cheney put in place is a mystery because Cheney refuses to release the minutes of his meeting with oil company execs early in his tenure in office. They'll be available some day. Remember when they come out that I said they planned to stick it to you and me at the gas pump.

then came 911, war in Afghanistan, war in Iraq, major instability in the Middle East, threat of War with Iran.

There's no oil in Afghanistan. Why should that affect oil prices? And 9/11 pretty well shut the country down for a while. Gas demand was down for a while. Was that reflected in gas prices. 9/11 had nothing to do with the war in Iraq. That war didn't just happen, Bush made it.

With all that going on we should be happy gas is not $5.00 per gallon like in European Countries.

You can be greatful to the oil companies for shafting you just a little bit, I won't, at least not without screaming. There is no reason for gasoline to be priced where it is today. Every quarter, profits for oil companies go up. When they don't make it on oil, they increase their refinery margins. Gas prices moderated in Sept, Oct last year because the election was near. As soon as Bush was re-elected, they started up again. One excuse after another and that's fine. But they NEVER go down. They went up after Katrina because some rigs and infastructure was destroyed, but those are mostly online again AND GAS IS HIGHER THAN IT WAS THEN.

 

[Frankie]

Aplus this a money management issue or the lack of.
Many Americans work for their money very few have their money working for them. If you take 10,000 dollars price of a half dozen cows and bought a varible annuity at 30 with the going rate and only contributed 50 dollars a month you would have nearly 350,000 dollars in your accountat retirement. Heck its tax free interest all contributions are tax deductible up to 4000 bucks. You will never get six old cows to pay you a return like that.
With a decent portfolio manager it could easily be 750,000 off a 10,000 dollar investment.

It's just easier to be jealous and whine than think and work smart.

Or to set back and enjoy your oil royalties and sneer at others who didn't have the good luck to inherit some.

Actually, we're very comfortable financally. Hard work, saving, managment, investing has made our retirement as comfortable as anyone we know. We're not rich, but then we don't have any oil money either. And I'd never suggest that someone less fortunant than me is a slacker.

 

[Frankie]

I wonder why we hear constantly about how we need to get rid of our dependency on foreign oil, but then when prices go high on gas it is all the American Oil companies or the Presidents fault for it?

When George HW Bush was President, oil was $12 a barrel. Independent oil producers in Oklahoma published a "letter to the president" in several major newspapers around the country. They asked him to levy a $3 a barrel tax on imported oil. They could stay in business at $15 a barrel, but not at $12. Bush refused. Independent producers shut down marginal wells and many of them were plugged. The big oil companies bought some of them, some small oil companies just disappeared. Amaco, Sunray DX, many small companies were bought up by the big guys and they now own the market, just as oilman Bush wanted. No wonder George kisses the Saudis when they get together. At least it's on the cheek.