Your cross?

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Brandonm2":3hsa4jsk said:
I certainly don't want to pull any more calves than I absolutely have to and I would rather not get back to the point where I have 6 or 7 different breeds floating around the same cow herd. From a strictly cow/calf herd perspective, I want the smallest frame, easiest keeping cow I can find that will wean off 600 pound steers on mostly grass and thanks to improved genetics I can do that now with Black baldie cows.

In addition to what Brandonm2 said, I'd say, "If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?" Cattle are cattle. We're not going to develop cattle who have 25# birthweights, wean off at 1200# calves, and have 2 calves a year! I'm getting a top quality animal, in a black baldie, that brings a top price where I live. I think there's more to lose when chasing after the ever-elusive easy performance upgrade.
 
With these two replies - Brandonm2 and rwtherfords - we have two "Voices of Experience", and who could not benefit from their knowledge? These two posts are worth the price of a textbook on "Beef Cattle Selection - Cross Breeding Protocols"! :)

Well done and well said, Gentlemen! ;-)

DOC HARRIS
 
One of the best studies on heterosis I've ever seen was at an American University research farm. I think it was U of Nebraska if I remember right but don't quote me on it. That study changed the way I looked at crossbreeding after reading it in the Canadian Gelbvieh magazine. They had done studies on using F-1 cows with F-1 bulls VS. purebreds VS. F-1 bulls on purebred cows VS. F-1 cows with terminal sires. All F-1 cows were of mainly British origin, and the 'terminal' sires were continental. The conclusion was that, under the same conditions - apples to apples - the terminal sires on F-1 british cows produced something like 24-26 pounds more of weaned calf. I'll try and find the article tonight and post it.

The article also stated that you have to consider all of your own factors - of course - b/c terminal sires on F-1 cows just doesn't work for everyone. We can't all at once take our mongrel cows to market and replace them the same day w/F1 females. So, when I took into consideration all of my factors, and got involved in a niche market for Galloway and Highland beef, I ended up with Galloway bulls on an Angus based cow herd, FOR NOW. The goal is Galloway cross females that I can breed any way I like. But for our beef program, the calves must be at least 50% 'Celtic' heritage, so we'll have to plan accordingly.

Now something else that vexes my mind, is how much is that extra 25 pounds of calf really worth when using continental sires, when you add in the extra work of calving problems with larger frames? 25 pounds is 25-35 dollars extra per calf, but a couple of vet bills for c-sections or prolapses, not to mention your own time, will eat that up pretty quick. So in my opinion it still comes down to whatever works for you. There is a huge amount of room for improvement in most herds I see, but you still can't just go by numbers and data. Black and white will make gray on paper, but when it comes to mixing genetics, it's not quite so clean cut.
 
Okay, here's my cross and although I'm still in the planning stages and may have to switch it in 5 years this is what I'm doing.... I like the Red Poll and Charolais. Them gold/buckskin calves do sell well and this is a cross that I think will give me good maternal cows.

Red Polls used to be a milk/beef breed but they've come along in progress just as other breeds have. They are more on the beef side, mature weight for a cow is between 1100-1500 lbs.
They are extremely gentle, easy going, can raise a nice calf (5 month old bull calf, no supplement, just momma and grass, weaned 542 lbs, heifer calves same age, just momma and grass weaned between 427 and 460 lbs). Everyone's program is different and what I want to do is build up my cows. I've set a goal for myself, 50 cows by the time I turn 50 and that is a realistic one I can accomplish in the next 4 years as I want to pay cash as I go.

I'm not sold on the "black is beautiful" and the carcass traits seem comparable to angus (according to the OK Steer feedout 2004/2005 summary I got in the mail).

Again, as I said, I think this cross will give me excellent momma cows and I plan on retaining the nicer heifers. I have 12 heifers and 5 cows so it will be a while before I get results from this cross.

J - you could probably check with MsCamp (OOPS, its wewild not MsCamp, sorry) as she has red poll/limis and see how she likes that cross.
 
Just a word of caution, you may have to watch your successive crosses being that your females will be half charolais. You don't want to end up with too much continental blood in your cows. Course it's just my opinion.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I wasn't asking the question to try and reinvent the cow or spend my life mongrelizing a "new breed". My intentions were just to stir up some thought and get opinions, and I got just what I was looking for. If someone would have suggested crossing a longhorn and a jersey, didn't mean I was going to go out today and buy up a bunch of LH cows and a jersey bull.

It's just been my experience that when you are dealing with something, just about anything, if you can ask a question like that and get a group of people around to discuss it and you sit back and listen close to all answers not necessairly taking them to heart but just listening and learning from peoples experiences and supprises you can walk away with a lot of knowledge that you didn't have before. Thanks again.
 
Alwasy part of the breed suitability is alwasy the management and environement.
In the desert of CA, even though we didn;t need Brahman influence for the heat we needed it for the difference in grazing pattern that indicus cattle have from taurus cattle, and that was strictly because of the scarcity of water.
Those short legged cattle of yesteryear would still work in a confinement environemtn but wouldn;t be worth diddly in expansive pastures or range conditions.Typically more body mass is preferred in colder climates then hot humid ones.
So even though people from different areas have ideas of what would be ideal in their area, it might not be right for the neighbor down the road because of a difference in management.
Sorry, just babbling again

dun
 
dun":1e4mgp0o said:
Alwasy part of the breed suitability is alwasy the management and environement.
In the desert of CA, even though we didn;t need Brahman influence for the heat we needed it for the difference in grazing pattern that indicus cattle have from taurus cattle, and that was strictly because of the scarcity of water.
Those short legged cattle of yesteryear would still work in a confinement environemtn but wouldn;t be worth diddly in expansive pastures or range conditions.Typically more body mass is preferred in colder climates then hot humid ones.
So even though people from different areas have ideas of what would be ideal in their area, it might not be right for the neighbor down the road because of a difference in management.
Sorry, just babbling again

dun

We are getting used to it.

Hillbilly
 
This might sound like a wild idea to most of you but I've been looking into composite bulls (angus x gelbvieh). I would breed them to a cow that is half charolais and half gelbvieh. The angus would give you good meat quality. The charolais would give excellent gains and gelbvieh have great milking traits. Just a thought!
 
For freezer beef I would like to start with a Hereford X Galloway mating to produce a cow. Then breed this cow to an Angus bull to produce the next generation cow. Then breed this cow to a Wagyu bull for the terminal cross. Probably never happen, but would like to try it. :lol:
 
Interesting combination. That would certainly have carcass potential with all the benefits of small-framed efficiency.
 
docgraybull":2f331vnf said:
For freezer beef I would like to start with a Hereford X Galloway mating to produce a cow. Then breed this cow to an Angus bull to produce the next generation cow. Then breed this cow to a Wagyu bull for the terminal cross. Probably never happen, but would like to try it. :lol:

This was along the lines of the type of answers I was expecting when I posted the question.
 
Highland x Welsh Black cow with Black Angus for a terminal sire.
This cross cow will be a easy keeper, very hardy, eat most anything, have minimal calveing problems, good in the winter, and have great meat. The Angus sire will keep the size down for the freezer and just add to the meat quality. If not a Angus sire a Lim might add some ass and muscle.
 
Since I prefer red cattle to black ones and want just a little Brahman influence in my herd, I would use Red Angus bulls on Santa Gertrudis or Beefmaster type cows. Calves would be 1/4 or less Brahman influence and be feeders dream. Heifers could be kept for replacements.
 
this is my first post here and this my idea of a top cross for my area. some Belgian Blue cows cross with a senepol bull or black brangus bull for color. I like the meaty look of the blues & add the senepol or brangus for the ear and heat tolerants. but until I get a lot of cash I guess I'll just keep helping my uncles with thier limo's crossed with limx cows & brax cows and working on geting my lil spot reddy for a feww head hopfully by spring :)
 
lilbitfarm":2bg8bzsa said:
this is my first post here and this my idea of a top cross for my area. some Belgian Blue cows cross with a senepol bull or black brangus bull for color. I like the meaty look of the blues & add the senepol or brangus for the ear and heat tolerants. but until I get a lot of cash I guess I'll just keep helping my uncles with thier limo's crossed with limx cows & brax cows and working on geting my lil spot reddy for a feww head hopfully by spring :)
Will you have enough cattle to have a full time calf puller or will you and your wife do it all???
 
la4angus wrote:


Will you have enough cattle to have a full time calf puller or will you and your wife do it all???

Why will he have to pull calves? He was talking about using Belgain Blue cows, not Belgain Blue bulls??? Brangus and Senepols don't throw large calves as a rule do they?
 
BC":zvrx130m said:
Since I prefer red cattle to black ones and want just a little Brahman influence in my herd, I would use Red Angus bulls on Santa Gertrudis or Beefmaster type cows. Calves would be 1/4 or less Brahman influence and be feeders dream. Heifers could be kept for replacements.
I talked to a man from south TX a few months back, he was using a three breed rotation of Gerts, Hereford, and Red Angus. He hauled all of his steers and low performing heifer calves to a feed yard in Kansas to be feed out and sold on the grid.
 
Rustler9":2j5lqrzv said:
la4angus wrote:


Will you have enough cattle to have a full time calf puller or will you and your wife do it all???

Why will he have to pull calves? He was talking about using Belgain Blue cows, not Belgain Blue bulls??? Brangus and Senepols don't throw large calves as a rule do they?

Many of the calves delivered by Belgian Blue females are done by way of C-Section. If he wanted this cross seems he would be better off using a Belgian Blue bull on some Brangus and Senepol females.
 

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