Working Yearlings

[randiliana]

As some of you may remember, I work at the local stockyards. So I get a lot of exposure to a lot of different breeds of cattle, although the vast majority of what comes through is Angus, Red Angus, Hereford and Charolais (crosses). There are good and bad in every breed.

This past few days, though, I was asked to help out with the cattle that were to be exported to the USA. They have to be vet inspected, clipped where the brand goes, branded with the CAN brand and have their RFID tags read and recorded for each load. We had 10 loads to do, which amounted to 600-700 head of cattle. They were all yearlings (18 months old or so).

The working system that we use is a high hog (I think) metal system with a crowding tub, S alley and squeeze chute, granted it is somewhat worn out, but it is pretty noisy. Plus they added in another chute to speed up the process. The whole thing took us about 19 hours to do, using 2 chutes.

On the whole, the more Black Angusy the group was the worse they were to work with. The same crew handled the whole works, so you can't suggest that was the difference. The only good thing about working with the mostly black groups was that when they saw a hole they generally went for it. But at mock speed. They crashed, they banged, they piled up in the chute, they charged, and when you opened the chute up for the next one they slammed in there like elephants, and good luck holding the next one back. They were just quite simply horrid animals to work. The more Herfordy groups were a pleasure to work with, they calmly walked into the chute, stood there and waited. They didn't crash around and bounce back and forth. When you opened the gates up in the chute they walked in and didn't slam into the head gates, I will admit that you had to use the prod on a few to get them moving when you were ready for them, though. There were a few char x and simm x animals in there, and while they weren't nearly as quiet as the Herefords, they didn't come close to the blacks. I can honestly say, that there wasn't one group of black animals that were easy to deal with. And we had one black heifer that would come out of the bunch that was done and charge people.

 

[I luv herfrds]

That is why temperment is the biggest thing for us.
Had one old cow years ago that you couldn't get into a barn or pen for shots. You just gave it to her where she stood. You could walk up to her in the pasture and sit on her if she was laying down.
But if a coyote or dog was near by after she had her calf, look out.

 

[somn]

Tempermant can be different within a breed and even within a herd. Many years ago i bought cattle off a ranch owned by two brothers. Those brothers produced some of the calmest best producing most efficient angus I ever bought. Several years went by and then one year they told me they would be dividing the operation up between each other. I could still buy both brothers cattle but from each ones seperate ranch. They divided cows and bulls with a gate cut. They following year I bought 93 steers with exactly they same temperment as the previous years. I also bought 85 steers from the other brother those steers were half to three fourths crazy, after getting them home to the feedlot it became apparent a month or two in that those crazy steers were gaining slower. 120 days later at rework those 85 steers entered the chute with a head of steam. I eneded up with several cattle having injured front shoulders. The only thing different was the way the cattle were managed from birth. The one brother must have spent a considerable amount of time around his cattle. The other brother must have never checked them. I'm guessing that was the reason for dissolving the partnership. My point is alot of people are quick to blame it on breed I never would.

 

[somn]

This past few days, though, I was asked to help out with the cattle that were to be exported to the USA. We had 10 loads to do, which amounted to 600-700 head of cattle. They were all yearlings (18 months old or so).

18 month old cattle weighing 815# ?

 

[randiliana]

Tempermant can be different within a breed and even within a herd. Many years ago i bought cattle off a ranch owned by two brothers. Those brothers produced some of the calmest best producing most efficient angus I ever bought. Several years went by and then one year they told me they would be dividing the operation up between each other. I could still buy both brothers cattle but from each ones seperate ranch. They divided cows and bulls with a gate cut. They following year I bought 93 steers with exactly they same temperment as the previous years. I also bought 85 steers from the other brother those steers were half to three fourths crazy, after getting them home to the feedlot it became apparent a month or two in that those crazy steers were gaining slower. 120 days later at rework those 85 steers entered the chute with a head of steam. I eneded up with several cattle having injured front shoulders. The only thing different was the way the cattle were managed from birth. The one brother must have spent a considerable amount of time around his cattle. The other brother must have never checked them. I'm guessing that was the reason for dissolving the partnership. My point is alot of people are quick to blame it on breed I never would.

I do agree with you that handling makes a big difference. But in this case, we were dealing with groups of cattle that contained many different owners in each group. Most of these were purchased as calves, then they may have been sold again as yearlings in the spring to be put out on grass. So you cannot blame it on owners/handling. I honestly believe that it IS breed related, which is not to say that you cannot find quiet Angus' or wild Herefords, just that there is a higher tendancy for Angus to be rammier (in the chute) and for herefords to be quieter.

 

[randiliana]

This past few days, though, I was asked to help out with the cattle that were to be exported to the USA. We had 10 loads to do, which amounted to 600-700 head of cattle. They were all yearlings (18 months old or so).

18 month old cattle weighing 815# ?

Pretty much, most of them would have been born from March to June of last year. They would have been smaller calves (less than 500 lbs) last fall which were backgrounded and then kicked out on grass for the summer. The backgrounders try for around 1-1.5 lbs/day for the winter and then they will put on around 1.5-2/lbs on grass for the summer.

So you take a 450 lb calf last fall, add on 150 lbs over the winter and 250 over the summer and you end up with an 850 lb yearling now. And a lot of these calves were less than 450 lbs. No-one said that they were the best gaining of last years calf crop. Most of those are already slaughtered.

 

[Frankie]

The Noble Foundation here in Oklahoma created their own line of cattle called "The Noble Line." They wound up with a 1/3 Angus, 1/3 Gelbvieh and 1/3 Brahman cross. They used Brangus to get the "Angus" percentage and first tried to keep the breed red. Eventually, they switched to black Brangus because there were more proven bulls available to them. They raised the animals on two seperate ranches, then had several sales to make the cattle available to the public. The difference in the temperment of cattle depending on which ranch they were raised on was very noticable. In fact, they mentioned it before one sale. I think you can find animals in every breed with disposition problems.

 

[SRBeef]

Randiliana,

I appreciate your post. This is obviously a touchy subject but it does help beginners understand,

Maybe we could say there is a "tendency" for the Angus to be a bit less docile.

I did have one hereford cow I bought that may have been mistreated earlier in her life and just never came around - she is or was in the freezer.

I have a couple of my Hereford cows that the only way I can really describe them is "sweet". Good mamas, clean up quickly in the spring etc. Two of these were purchased as bred to a friend's super reg Angus bull. Their heifer calves, now yearlings are just nothing like their dam's temprament! any time I get close, their front legs are braced and they run at full speed at the drop of a hat.

By contrast I have a couple of good temprament Hereford cows who were bred to a run of the mill/luck of the draw Hereford rent-a-bull my neighbor and I shared last year. These full Hereford calves on the other hand will come right up to me and eat out of my hand. If I am sitting in the pasture one sometimes comes up from behind and licks my elbow etc....

So I would say that my first hand experience matches your 19 hour ordeal.

There are some nasty Herefords (I had one) and probably some docile Angus (I've yet to see one) but the overall TENDENCies tend to be as you found.

I discussed this with my vet during a visit. His reply was "well, maybe. but the black ones bring 5 cents more at the sale barn". As far as I'm concerned it is worth 5 cents or more to have a docile herd that is fun to work with.

The BWF are a bit more square than their full Hereford mates, however I will be culling for full Herefords only this fall and in the future. Thanks for sharing your experience. It confirms what I have seen even as a newcomer to cattle.

 

[harry]

Maybe those black cattle weren't Angus at all. Quite a few Black Gelbvieh and Black Salers out there trying to give those docile Angus a bad rap.

 

[dun]

Atitude/disposition is a strange trait that doesn;t really seem to be totally logical. Same cow bred to the same bull for 6 years, 2 of the calves were a pain in the butt because they were always underfoot and way to friendly. 2 calves were flaming lunatics. The other 2 were just claves, nothing notable about them. not wild and not tame, just calves. Our tamest pain in the butt cow is out of a cow that decided at around 7years old to try to kill anyone in sight. While she was going nuts, her daughter would stick her head through the fence to talk to me and want to be petted. To this day the cow is alwasy underfoot and is impossible to herd from behind.

 

[hillrancher]

The way your cattle are handled and cared for determines the disposition of most of them. I have 3 groups each group has a different disposition. The group at the house will come to the fence by the house if they want salt or feed, you can walk out spray for flies in the pasture. The 2 nd group we go though their pasture to get to the third group. They will watch if you stop by the pens they will come if they see you stop. They also will let you spray for flies in the pasture. The 3rd is not at all friendly they will run if they think you are going to come close. We have to penn them to spray. All when we check take cubes to throw out a few. All 3 groups have the same bulls rotated in them. At the house are heifers I raised we hand feed, was with them every day after weaning until after calving. The 2 group all that calve in the spring, after feeding they are worked and out to pasture. The 3 group calve in the fall and the stragglers from spring. When they calves we are not feeding, they are more protective of the calves, try to keep them from being seen, makes the calves wilder which make the mom a fool. They do not settle down in the winter when feeding. Mix them with the other they still stay wilder.

 

[somn]

They do not settle down in the winter when feeding. Mix them with the other they still stay wilder.

9 times out of 10 those crazy ones will make the entire pen they were penned with goofy also.

 

[randiliana]

Yes, I understand that there are major differences within breed, and that the way they are handled at home makes a big difference. I have been around cattle my whole life, and have been raising my own for the last 15 years. I do know cattle.

But, we worked approx 700 head of cattle, 400+ of them were some mixture of angus, and a good percentage of that was at least 3/4 angus, if not pure angus. I cannot say that there was 1 load where the angus were easy to handle in closed spaces, and especially down the chute. The higher the percentage of angus in the load, the rammier they were, the higher percentage of Hereford the quieter they were. There were some Simmental, some Gelbveih, and probably a few other breeds in there too. The Simms and Gelbveihs were also quieter than the angus to handle, but not as quiet as the Herefords, but then, there were no straight bred ones (I didn't think) and there probably weren't 50 of any other breed, so you couldn't really judge them well.

You can argue handling practices all day long, but we were dealing with cattle that originated in many different herds, some should have been quiet if the way they had been handled in the past was the reason for the attitude.

We have had wild Hereford cows, and quiet Angus cows, but on the whole, I feel a whole lot safer in a pen of Hereford animals than I ever do in a pen of Angus ones. Our cows tend to be quiet, and the problem causers hit the road, 90% of those have been Angus or Angus x. I have yet to be run at by a Hereford, and have been several times by Angus cows. Including one of the yearlings we worked the other day.

How many of you have worked around many different breeds and many, many different animals? The stockyards is a good place to go if you want to learn about breeds and their tendancies. When you deal with 15,000 - 20,000 per fall of various different breeds of cattle you see it all. You see what is usually quiet and what is usually wild. You get cattle that have been handled every way that there is to be handled. Granted in our area, most of the cattle are (or have in them) Angus, Hereford, Charolais, Simmental, Limousin, and Gelbveih (from most to least). We do see other breeds of course, but not hardly enough to make a educated guess about them.

Talking about handling methods, we had 2 different owners bring in cattle to the last sale. One was mostly Angus/Hereford and the other was Simm x with Angus and Hereford. The Simm cattle had rarely ever seen people, they were nuts, you had to watch your back and wanted to stay near a fence when in with them. The Angus/Herefords on the other hand, were almost too docile, it was hard to move them anywhere. I don't really know how often they had seen people but they certainly weren't scared of us. I would have liked to have seen them down the chute, to see if their attitude changed then. I don't think it would have.

 

[Boldcat]

Somn, I can certainly relate to your story.When I made the switch from bison to cattle I bought my foundation stock from a retired vetrinarian.
Those animals were so calm they would fight over who got their back scratched
Two years ago I bought 12 more heifers from him . In the mean time his wife had left him.
Those last heifers were plain NUTS !!
After a couple weeks 2 when straight to sale.
Then last year I Ai'd the reamaining 10 with very poor results.
I calved them out in spring and 1 tried to kill be and almost caught me. She is now dead.I have 4 more with calves at side and when they are weaned they will be slaughtered.
They make my herd crazy and some of them are sisters to my original foundation heifers. Man did I learn an expensive lesson there.
They were simmentals by the way.
Now I make all my replacements with AI.

 

[ToddFarmsInc]

ya, I suppose that's possible. Nature Vs. Nuture........


My cows (mostly angus, but also a other breeds mixed in) are generally very easy to work with in the pens. I get them in, they know the drill, they work the same directions every time. I seperate the calves, and send the cows to a different pen, with just a show stick, an extra body or two, and the general flow of the animals. They don't get too worked up, I talk in a normal voice, my border collie adds a little motovation behind the old gals that need a little extra help, and the hot shot stays in the vet supply cabnet.

A few years ago, right after my dad died, I had a friend come out and help with the sorting job, seperating the cows from their calves. It was one of those at the funeral verbal "if there is anything I can do to help" offers. I thought I would take him up on it.

He brought out a couple of his friends. They all work at the local stock yards. They got in my corrall with my livestock and proceeded to work my cows, like they did when when they were working in the sale barn. They were whooping, and hollaring, and throwing their arms in big giant gestures. When the cows were going the right direction, they kept on them, smacking them with show sticks and motovating them to proceed faster. The cows keep going faster and faster, and started bolting in directions and ways I've never seen my animals behave. They were worked up into a lather, and were to the point of sailing over the corrall fences. I finnally told my "help" to go home, I would just work the animals by myself.

Same cows, different handelers, different results. I take observations like "angus are mean, holstiens are nice" with a grain of salt. Sure that might be true, it's possible that an angus might balk, and startle more quickly than other breeds.

 

[dun]

Twice a year we work from 350-500 head of mixed breeds and gender calves at the backgorunders. These are all fresh off the truck, preconditioned for 30-45 days. One breeders calves are all total lunatics, most all of them are a little proddy with the new experience and strangers working them. I've only been really worried about being attacked, and I was right, once. It was a Hereford heifer that launched herself at me from a distance and got me squarely in the chest. She looked like one of those dodge commercials with the ram launching himself for a head butt.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

When cows pull out their knife on me, I send the dogs. If that doesn't remedy I introduce lack of oxygen by way of rope tied hard and fast to saddle horn. When all else fails it's crop in the ear for next round of cull shipping.

 

[dun]

Twice a year we work from 350-500 head of mixed breeds and gender calves at the backgorunders. These are all fresh off the truck, preconditioned for 30-45 days. One breeders calves are all total lunatics, most all of them are a little proddy with the new experience and strangers working them. I've only been really worried about being attacked, and I was right, once. It was a Hereford heifer that launched herself at me from a distance and got me squarely in the chest. She looked like one of those dodge commercials with the ram launching himself for a head butt.

That must have been pretty scary. Although if you were not hurt I am sure you laughed about it later.

One I could breath again I did. Everyone else got a real laugh by the time I stood up when they realized I wasn;t dead.

 

[Limomike]

I really dont believe color has anything to do with temperament. Its strictly the way they are handled, and breed. But like it has been pointed out, all breeds have their bad ones and good ones.
Most of my mixed breed calves (Limi/Beefmaster cross) work real well in the pens and chutes, but occasionally have a wild one; like two weeks ago, a 600lb steer missed kicking my jaw off by an inch, and we "danced" in the pen a time or two before I got him loaded.

 

[dun]

I would have tried to duck if A) I had time and B) I was trussed up like duck from having shoulder surgery a couple of days before.