Winter Rye

[marksmu]

Im down near the Texas Coast - Anahuac TX area, and we put out about 130 acres of rye 4.5 weeks ago....grass is getting about 5 inches tall, and I cannot for the life of me find a good source of when I can safely turn the cows out into the rye without them ripping up the roots of this stuff. Some of it is doing better than other areas, but what is the safe bet for the earliest I can turn the cows into it?

I dont need it now so I can easily hold off, I have plenty of stock piled other grass available, I was just wondering when is the earliest you can graze it, and when is the ideal time to graze it?

Thanks!

 

[Douglas]

Try to tear if off with your hand and see if the roots come up. I would normally wait till 6-8 inches the first time around. Edit: I would hold off a while if you can, the rye will hold up to the cold better than other stockpiled stuff. I also like to hold the rye as close to calving as possible as it is much higher in nutrition than anything thing else your likely to feed because they need it more then. The biggest mistake people make with winter annuals is grazing too soon.

 

[Douglas]

check this out:

http://www.aces.edu/dept/forages/winterannuals.html

 

[JRGidaho`]

Douglas' suggestion to see if you could easily pull it up is the best guideline.

I would guess you were on sandy soil down there (?). The sandier the soil the longer you need to wait. On clay type soils you can start grazing at 4-5 inches. I've seen sandy situations where 10" growth was still pulling out of the ground. If your stockpile is bermuda or bahia, you will definitely want to use that in early winter.

 

[marksmu]

The field the Rye is in is about 30% sandy and 70% clay type. It was a rice farm when we bought it, and we have been slowly but surely getting the pastures fixed back up. I moved the cows off the 60 acres of bahia last week and into the 130 acres of bermuda grass. The bermuda is about 18-30 inches tall depending on where you are in the pasture. I dont have a bailer or I would have bailed it. There is about 60 acres of good Bermuda in this pasture and another 70 acres or so of weeds mixed in with the Bermuda. I want to keep the cows on the Bermuda till the Rye is settled, I just dont want the Rye going to seed on me and I dont have enough cows to keep the full 130 acres eaten down.

Ill probably end up waiting till its a little taller, but if I wait too long I get afraid the geese are going to move in and wipe me out. Ill do the pull test this weekend and see what it feels like.

 

[TexasBred]

Mark if you're like us around here, just wait until it gets "dryer". That should solve any problems.

 

[marksmu]

I dont actually think it ever dries here. It gets less muddy - but Im not sure it ever gets "dry". It was dryish this summer, but not enough to ever brown anything or kill the mosquitoes....now its just flat out wet. This field has pretty good drainage, but 1 inch of rain takes a couple weeks to burn off this time of year and get the top firm again and we got several inches last week.

 

[Fred]

The main problem will be if the ground is wet the cows will mess up a lot of grass when they walk in it. I'd wait until it was about 6 inches tall before grazing. Also, if you can let the cattle in for a couple hours a day and take them out your ryegrass will go a lot further.

 

[marksmu]

I'm going to have to revive this post again for another question....

It is not getting dryer at all...in fact its getting wetter it seems every week. I have our 2 herds split apart at the moment. We have our 20 bred cows and the bull off in some bermuda grass that since the snow fall has gone very dormant. That bermuda is about 8 inches tall still, down from about 12inches 2 weeks ago and is 60 acres give/take a few. They are still gaining on it, so Im leaving them in it for a while longer. I have another 60 that is on the other side of the electric fence that I am going to open up in a week or so when they beat that down.

Our 19 heifer calves were weaned back on October 10 - and have been on bahia since they were weaned. They cleaned that pasture up and I had to move them last weekend because they were right on the cusp of overgrazing it. I moved them into the 135 acres of rye grass, and I am pondering this question....Should I limit the field with electric fence into two 60+ acre pastures?

The reason I ask is that, the 135 is way too much for them, but I am afraid with how wet it is, if I do limit them they will trample everything faster, than if I just let em walk the whole pasture. I have, I am guessing...(feel free to comment here) about 3 weeks left on the Bermuda field with the cows in it, and I am going to have to eventually turn all of them into the field, and at that time I am going to attempt to keep the two herds separate with an electric fence.

So, the question is, fence them off OR let them roam...my thought was let em roam, b/c they cant trample as much if they are constantly moving throughout it....the calves have been on it nearly 10 days, and there is little evidence of damage even though it is very wet. I walked the field, and can see that they are grazing it all randomly, but not over pressuring anything at this point.

Random tidbit that may help any answers - I have access to hay all winter (neighbor sells it) but I did not buy any other than some for weaning - and I want to have my rye last the winter till I turn back out onto fresh growth.... so my goal here is to keep the 20 cows, 2 newborns, and bull in 1/2 and the 19 weaned heifer calves in the other half, and not have to buy much, if any hay.

The point of the picture is to show the grass...not the pig. We were just checking the calves, and came across a pack of pigs, and I let a friend of mine (in the photo) take the biggest sow. At any rate this is the pasture - you can ignore the nasty pig in the photo.

 

[1982vett]

Sort of a toss up their. I'm having the same problems with it being to wet (ahh, not really complaining) and it looks like concentrating them on smaller pastures is really bogging things up. At this point I'm going to say leave them on the whole 135 acres. Hopefully they will tend to stay out of the wetter spots and seek out the drier. They might even "pack" the ground a bit before the bigger cows get to it. I sent my cows back thru one patch that had a little regrowth because the ground was firmer from them having already been on it.

 

[Douglas]

The issue with cross fencing is the need to reduce waste. With 135 acres it sound like you will have plenty whether or not you cross fence. The next question is, are we talking cereal rye or ryegrass, i see it both ways in this thread. If it is ryegrass and you have the need to make some hay for next year, I might just section off just enough of that to cut and bale. Maybe your neighbor would cut it and split it with you. That would keep the ground smooth. You could still graze if you needed to later. Cereal rye on the other hand is not much use as hay so I would not go to the trouble of cross fencing. If I had all that winter grazing I might consider buying some small calves around 400lbs to background.

 

[marksmu]

It is rye grass, and not cereal rye....I do need hay, but my biggest concern is just having enough forage to get me through until April when things get nice and green again. Im not too worried about hay for next year b/c I am putting this pasture into millet once I exhaust the rye, and I am going to have the millet bailed to get my emergency hay built up.

This being my first winter with more than a few cattle down here, Im not certain how many head I can graze on this rye pasture. My total herd count is 20 cows, 1 bull, 2 newborn calves, and 19 weaned heifers....I have never paid much attention to the growth of grass until the last couple years when I became interested in ranching....so I really do not know the carrying capacity of 135 acres of rye.

I picked that amount of acreage to plant solely because it was the easiest portion of the ranch to fence off that was adjacent to an already fenced portion, and I had spent alot of time repairing the salt damage on this section.

I am paying alot of attention to how much they are eating, but with 19 weaned heifers in there, I have not yet noticed any difference....only thing different that I can tell is the heifers got the squirts. I read I should give them free choice hay, and I have, but they have not touched a bit of it. I dont live there, so I cant limit graze it, just move them around on Saturdays and Sundays.

What is the carrying capacity of winter rye? If I turn all my cattle in there, will I have enough to get me through until April without addittional supplement?

 

[1982vett]

Pondering on your question and all. For one, that ryegrass should really pop towards the end of February. It isn't really going to show a whole lot of growth till then, but once the sun comes out and the days get longer and warmer... look out, it is going to pop. If cutting the 135 acres in half isn't all that hard to get done, 40 head on 65 acres probably won't cause much more damage than running them on the whole plus you will better be able to judge how fast they are going thru it. I'd like to say you won't have any problem making it to April, but I just don't know how things really work and grow down their. Looks like you have a good start in your picture. The problem is that nothing (oats, ryegrass or clover) is growing in this cloudy and wet weather. Up here I know what to expect and usually by the end of January the cattle have the run of the place. By the end of February to mid-March I can start closing them out of parts and start topdressing for hay.

 

[Douglas]

Normally people around here in the southeast plant about 1 acre of winter annuals per cow. You have way more than you need. You would be wasting money not to use some of it for hay as opposed to planting something new. Ryegrass is excellent hay and i can't see anyway your cows will keep up with the growth this spring. edit: i have 28 cows that will calf in feb. I should have enough ryegrass on 10 acres to save some for hay starting mid april when the fescue pasture starts up.

 

[Douglas]

You will probably need to section off some to keep the bull away from the calves pretty soon anyway.

 

[JRGidaho`]

mark,

It sounds like you have way more ryegrass than what you need for your existing cattle herd and it would turn into way more hay than you need if you let 2/3rds of it go for hay. If you effectively manage what's out here, you could probably buy 60-70 lightweight steers or heifers, graze them on the ryegrass and then keep them on your summer pasture until late June, maybe. That way the ryegrass makes you money (animal gain) rather than costing you money (turning it into hay).

If you go to buy cattle, I would look for picking up off-color, off-breed cattle in bunches of 1-4 head weighing 375 to 425 lb. I would only worry about size uniformity. These will be the most highly discounted cattle at local sales. If you can pick up the 60-70 head, you would have a pot load. When you sell ugly cattle by the pot load, you can usually add 10-15 cents/lb value to your original purchase weight bought as singles or small bunches. You can usually make a lot more money buying and selling what most people consider the undesirable cattle, than you can trying to work with #1 steers or heifers. A lot of times there is even more profit potential in the off-type heifers compared to the steers. I would try to sell them either on the video or private treaty.

Regardless of what you choose to do, I would definitely fence your current herd to a smaller area and minimize the amount they are wasting.