Why would someone sell rounds vs squares if you have hay ground.As some know I dove off into my own hay equipment and land purchase for my own hay production for my cattle. I think I am going to get more hay produced than my cattle can eat. My question is why would anyone bale round bales for sale when you can make 2-4 times the money selling square bales. My figures appear that you could get a square baler,grapple,and accumulator for the difference you can make in selling square bales. I know the horse guys want better hay but what am I missing out on here. Lets assume that you get 18-24 sq bales per round bale. The round sells for $30-$45. you get 3.5 bales to the acre. That equals 70 bales for a gross of $2625 for 20 acres. Now with sq bales you will get 1540 bales with prices bringing $5-$6 per bale. That is $8470 for the same 20 acres. All the numbers of bales and prices were adjusted for the middle of the price scale locally. Did I miss math class that there isn't more profit in selling square bales. I know I will get plenty of responses here but what am I not seeing.
why would anyone do this
- Thread starter plbcattle
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Other then horse, goat and the people hand feeding only a couple of animals or those without a tractor, small squares aren;t in much of a demand. You could possibly make more, but you'ld have to have customers that want small squares. to make it pencil out. Plus the additional labor of handling for stoarage and loading unloading probably would have to be considred
dun
dun
L Weir
Well-known member
My father in law buys round bales to feed his sheep and goats. I don't know how much he paid. There are some breeders I know that buy round bales because they don't have enough acres for hay and use it for pastures.
OP
OP
plbcattle
Well-known member
I have looked at a hay accumulator that is pulled behind the square baler that puts them in stacks of ten. Then a hay grapple that picks up the 10 bales. They can be moved to the barn or set directly on a trailer. This could all be done with only 1 person. The accumulator is pulled behind the tractor and baler and adds no more passes to collect hay. Both of these can be bought new for around $6500. You can load 175-200 bales in less than 20 minutes with the hay grapple. No more loading each bale by hand and stacking. You can store in a barn this same way.
dcara
Well-known member
I make rounds because thats what alot of people want. I can sell alot more hay in round bales than I can small squares. Squares are generally used for hand/barn/pen feeding and rounds are generally used for pasture feeding since there is less labor to move rounds from the barn to the pasture than squares. So it really depends on what market your selling to.
Other considerations are
1) I also think there is less labor involved in producing and storing rounds which supports a lower price. The type of hay can also dictate whether squares or rounds make more sense. For instance, I don't think there would be much of a market for small squares of rye grass.
2) So if I'm makeing rounds for my livestock since they are much easier to deal with, then I have round bailing equipment. I will sell my surplus. But I don't think just surplus sales can justify square bailing equipment.
Other considerations are
1) I also think there is less labor involved in producing and storing rounds which supports a lower price. The type of hay can also dictate whether squares or rounds make more sense. For instance, I don't think there would be much of a market for small squares of rye grass.
2) So if I'm makeing rounds for my livestock since they are much easier to deal with, then I have round bailing equipment. I will sell my surplus. But I don't think just surplus sales can justify square bailing equipment.
DrumRunner728
Well-known member
We don't buy anything but round bales. We don't have a need for square bales unless I have a horse that needs to be confined to a stall (obviously, this doesn't apply to our cattle) and I need to be able to continue feeding hay. When the grass quits growing in late fall/early winter, we put a round bale in each pasture and continue replenishing these as necessary throughout the winter and into spring.
Bez>
Well-known member
Square bales?
Better have a good clientelle.
And as for selling to horse folks? Got that T-shirt and never again.
We feed our horses what we grow - round bales in a feeder - they do very well. Square bales and one horse people? Any excuse to complain about hay and they go elsewhere. Actually had one complain about the colour of the twine!!
We tossed the lot of them, recommended the good clients to other dealers, told the not-so-nice buyers to find another supplier and stopped with the small squares. Labour level and frustration levels went back to normal.
Life became good.
Bez>
Better have a good clientelle.
And as for selling to horse folks? Got that T-shirt and never again.
We feed our horses what we grow - round bales in a feeder - they do very well. Square bales and one horse people? Any excuse to complain about hay and they go elsewhere. Actually had one complain about the colour of the twine!!
We tossed the lot of them, recommended the good clients to other dealers, told the not-so-nice buyers to find another supplier and stopped with the small squares. Labour level and frustration levels went back to normal.
Life became good.
Bez>
MoGal
Well-known member
Depending upon the quality of hay - if its common grass hay its better round baled as the horse people are gonna pass it by unless its all they can find.
The square bales work for someone in a controlled feeding (such as a couple of flakes per horse) but the owner has not sharpened his pencil or he'd have round bales out for animals especially if they have a number of animals.
Most people who have just a couple of animals or less or who have stabled animals use the squares, so you're limiting your market and is your hay going to be of the quality that they would want?
So far a lot of hay this year is being sold out of the field, lord knows what kind of prices it will be this winter, as fescue hay is selling for $30 bale out of the field 4x5 round bales.
The square bales work for someone in a controlled feeding (such as a couple of flakes per horse) but the owner has not sharpened his pencil or he'd have round bales out for animals especially if they have a number of animals.
Most people who have just a couple of animals or less or who have stabled animals use the squares, so you're limiting your market and is your hay going to be of the quality that they would want?
So far a lot of hay this year is being sold out of the field, lord knows what kind of prices it will be this winter, as fescue hay is selling for $30 bale out of the field 4x5 round bales.
Earl Thigpen
Well-known member
I don't know about other folks but the reason I do round bales is pretty simple - labor!
I started working hay more than 50 years ago and there is just something about bucking 60 to 80 lb bales from daylight to dark that will make you believe there's a better way. I've still got a square baler but it has set so long the tires have rotted off. Don't ever intend to do another square bale as long as I live.
I started working hay more than 50 years ago and there is just something about bucking 60 to 80 lb bales from daylight to dark that will make you believe there's a better way. I've still got a square baler but it has set so long the tires have rotted off. Don't ever intend to do another square bale as long as I live.
Hawk
Well-known member
You might also want to consider whether or not you want the job of selling your square bales 2 or 3 at a time all winter. I suspect that the people you will be selling them to won't buy in any quantity.
Ryder
Well-known member
You just brought back memories I would just as soon not remember.BrianL":1t4uawex said:
Hawk":29xj71qm said:
Bingo we have a winner.
If you limit your sales to people that will buy 25 or so at a time.
you will not need more than 1000 or so epending on your market. Also those buyers are looking at getting 25 at a "volume" discount. you will be hard pressed to find alot of buyers paying 5 or 6 bucks a bale in a nondrought area in lots of 25 or more.
Alot of things look good on paper that just dont pencil out.
MD
novatech
Well-known member
As many have said it is all about your market. Around here square and round run about the same,1000lb. round about 55 or 60lb. square about 4.00 to 5.00 With the new square bale equipment it seems that it would not make much dif. for your own hay, if you have the storage. But if you selling it only depents on market value and market demand.
AngusLimoX
Well-known member
If you go back to your original questions plb you will see where I stand on square bales. Unless the weather threatens all we are going to do is small squares. All for our own use.
Hoping to get up to 15000 smalls a year once we have all fields in production. All by hand ( thrower and rack - elevator to mow ).
Hoping to get up to 15000 smalls a year once we have all fields in production. All by hand ( thrower and rack - elevator to mow ).
john250
Well-known member
To the words of caution, I'd add one more. Prices are rarely as good as word of mouth reports. Is there a hay auction anywhere near you? I'd contact the manager and chat about prices over several years--not just that one drought year.
People talk about $5 a bale, but it is rare as hens teeth around here.
I've had horse folk encourage me to bale some small squares--I usually offer to sell them a few acres windrowed and ready for baling. No one has taken me up yet.
Good luck. You may be the one who makes it go.
People talk about $5 a bale, but it is rare as hens teeth around here.
I've had horse folk encourage me to bale some small squares--I usually offer to sell them a few acres windrowed and ready for baling. No one has taken me up yet.
Good luck. You may be the one who makes it go.
OP
OP
plbcattle
Well-known member
I am just thinking about it. I won't touch a square bale with my hands. I am not trying to do this in place of feeding rounds or not even marketing to cattle people. The accumulator and grapple will load and stack the hay. I know that small time horse and cattle people buy square hay faster than rounds. They can buy 100-200 here and there. Most people around here might be feeding 5-8 cows or 3-6 horses. At the feed stores and co-ops around here they sell out of square bales as fast as they can get them in stock for 6.50-7.50 per bale. I know it sounds high as heck but the business side of my brain tells me that if you could sell them at even $5.50 a bale you can make a lot more money than selling rounds. The way I look at equipment purchases is that it's not like after you buy it is is worth nothing. If you bought a baler,accumulator and grapple for $15,000-$20,000 and all the while the land you were cutting hay off of appreciates in price, I think it could be done. I have a hard time wanting to do this after all the people that have been there and done that saying NO. I can tell you that all the land I have purchased over the last 7 years, will make me far more in appreciation than will the cattle,hay, or equipment. I think a lot of people don't look at that side of the cattle business as an investment. All the big breeders dispersing and selling out for millions of dollars, it is just building equity in a business that at some time most will cash out on in the future.
Well I think you all pretty well covered the pros and cons of round vs. square except for the time factor.
You can bail a lot more round bales and let them cure in the field with out molding then you can mow, let cure/dry, then bale and moving them inside to avoid mold.
Remember the old saying: "make hay while the sun shines".
Well, round bales let you make a lot more hay when the sun is shining vs. square bales.
If the truth be known, round bales will save you about a day in curing/drying time before baling because round baled hay can cures/dry in the bale in the field, as square baled hay must fully cure/dry before it is baled or it will surly mold, or burn your barn down.
And moldy hay can kill a horse.
SL
You can bail a lot more round bales and let them cure in the field with out molding then you can mow, let cure/dry, then bale and moving them inside to avoid mold.
Remember the old saying: "make hay while the sun shines".
Well, round bales let you make a lot more hay when the sun is shining vs. square bales.
If the truth be known, round bales will save you about a day in curing/drying time before baling because round baled hay can cures/dry in the bale in the field, as square baled hay must fully cure/dry before it is baled or it will surly mold, or burn your barn down.
And moldy hay can kill a horse.
SL
CPL":1jhyiof6 said:
I've got to disagree with this statement. We routinely square bale our hay - both small squares, and 4X4's - and it only takes 2 people. Dad cuts, Mom rakes, and Dad bales. Come time to haul it, it's either Dad alone, Dad and Mom, or Dad and me. Even when we had custom balers, it still only took 2 people.
