Who's got all the money?

[SBMF 2015]

I watched 86 commercial bred heifers sell today. All blk and bwf, A.I.'d to calve Mar 1st. They sold in groups of 4or 5. $2,250-$2,600

 

[Buck Randall]

If you're looking to make a quick buck, you can get them a lot cheaper just a few hours north.

 

[MurraysMutts]

bred to America?

sheesh

 

[SBMF 2015]

They took the ad down already it was the Kocher bred heifer sale. Just A.I.'d to low birth Angus bulls.

 

[TCRanch]

Nope!!!

 

[Lucky]

I've seen them go for that around here. 3 years ago I was in a bind and bought 32 for $1,750 a head. Won't do that again. They had 300 for sale and another 500 bought to breed for the next year so someone is buying them at those prices pretty regular.

 

[Dave]

Last week I watched a pen of 6 nice solid mouth black and black whiteface cows bred 6 months sell for $675. I hit them once at $650 but they are too late calving for our one and done deal so I let them go. Guy bought them for the next bid.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Last week I watched a pen of 6 nice solid mouth black and black whiteface cows bred 6 months sell for $675. I hit them once at $650 but they are too late calving for our one and done deal so I let them go. Guy bought them for the next bid.

The "kind" right there...
Ya missed out!

 

[Lucky]

I think calving at the right time is a big part of what people will pay. I know it was for me. If you calve starting February 1st for 90 days and buy a group of heifers to calve at that same time for $1,200 you will probably have $1,700 in them by the time you cull the opens the following year.

 

[kenny thomas]

I think calving at the right time is a big part of what people will pay. I know it was for me. If you calve starting February 1st for 90 days and buy a group of heifers to calve at that same time for $1,200 you will probably have $1,700 in them by the time you cull the opens the following year.

So if you paid 2600 for them what's the price by the time you cull? Too much for me

 

[Lucky]

So if you paid 2600 for them what's the price by the time you cull? Too much for me

I babied the group I bought. They were bred to finish calving 45 days before the rest of the cows finished, we calved them out in their own pasture and then fed them 45 days longer than the older cows. I stuck two really nice young Hereford bulls on them for 30 days then turned them out with the cows to finish breeding for 60 days. We still didn't get them all bred. I'd have to go back and look to see how many opens we had but I feel like if they hadn't calved early it would have been double. These heifers came from a prevac sale and were bred to 44 farms bulls. I kept most all of the heifer Calves out of this group and they turned out nice. I doubt I'll pay that much again so $2,600 is out of my range for sure. The last time a kept and bred a group of 20 I figured I had about $1,500 a HD in them. Last year we bought a dozen heavy bred black heifers for $1,150 avg. There's no way that man made money.

 

[Dave]

The "kind" right there...
Ya missed out!

No I didn't miss out. I passed up on them because they didn't fit into my program. A cow bred 6 months now will calf the end of April into May. We will have gone to the hills with the cows by then. Which means I have to keep the cow around somehow until she calves. Or send her out with the rest of the cows and let her calf up in the hills. Risk predators and have an unbranded calf. The old one and done cows get shipped in mid August. That makes for about a 3 month old calf. You can wean a calf that age but it won't be a winner. So no I didn't miss out. They were cheap but didn't fit the program.

 

[BrazosBottomHand]

No I didn't miss out. I passed up on them because they didn't fit into my program. A cow bred 6 months now will calf the end of April into May. We will have gone to the hills with the cows by then. Which means I have to keep the cow around somehow until she calves. Or send her out with the rest of the cows and let her calf up in the hills. Risk predators and have an unbranded calf. The old one and done cows get shipped in mid August. That makes for about a 3 month old calf. You can wean a calf that age but it won't be a winner. So no I didn't miss out. They were cheap but didn't fit the program.

Just curious what exactly does “send them into the hills” mean? The unbranded calf thing got me wondering. Is this like public land? Still your property? Trying to picture how that works and how a thief would get an unbranded calf .

 

[Dave]

Just curious what exactly does “send them into the hills” mean? The unbranded calf thing got me wondering. Is this like public land? Still your property? Trying to picture how that works and how a thief would get an unbranded calf .

There is miles and miles of rugged range land here. Some of it is private and some is BLM. Cows spend the winter in the valley getting fed hay. When grass comes on in the spring the calves get branded and cows get kicked out to the hills. There are fences of sort but cows don't always stay where they are supposed to. And it is big enough area that if a cow goes to the neighbors or farther no one will know until the fall gather. A brand is a return address label. Very little out right stealing. But an unbranded calf shows up mixed in several hundred calves, whose calf is it?
Last year when we gathered the place where the one and done cows were there was 9 pairs belonging to 3 different neighbors caught up in the gather. There was 6 of our pairs that came home later out of the neighbors gathers. I have one pair which has never been seen.

 

[necattle]

I babied the group I bought. They were bred to finish calving 45 days before the rest of the cows finished, we calved them out in their own pasture and then fed them 45 days longer than the older cows. I stuck two really nice young Hereford bulls on them for 30 days then turned them out with the cows to finish breeding for 60 days. We still didn't get them all bred. I'd have to go back and look to see how many opens we had but I feel like if they hadn't calved early it would have been double. These heifers came from a prevac sale and were bred to 44 farms bulls. I kept most all of the heifer Calves out of this group and they turned out nice. I doubt I'll pay that much again so $2,600 is out of my range for sure. The last time a kept and bred a group of 20 I figured I had about $1,500 a HD in them. Last year we bought a dozen heavy bred black heifers for $1,150 avg. There's no way that man made money.

I have been having great success with either heifers, very late calvers, and coming 2 yrs. We operate a heat sync system where we feed MGA along with a filler feed for taste for two weeks. This stops them from cycling and they start gaining weight. We then give them a shot of progesterone.
In 3 to 5 days they will experience a false cycle. Then the next full cycle is a very heavy cycle where the majority of heifers are believed to take.
What we experienced was 80 % of our heifers bred back during the false cycle. The remaining heifers in the second full cycle. Always a stragler or two but when vet preg tests there are seems to be an issue with reproductive organs. The vet has verified the false cycle being the time frame of the breeding success. This was a shock but a pleasant one. 40-50 heifers typically retained per year.
This has also taken our late calvers and made them into first cycle rebreeds almost exclusively. Our goal is too have a 45 day breeding operation.
This quick weight gain and then breeding has made a huge difference in our replacement heifer program.
By starting our breeding system early, (3-4 weeks) the heifer calves born early keep up with weights of older cows calves as a whole. Better weights, better conformity, more heifer calves sold for replacement breeding heifers. Win win win.
Its an easy process once you try it.
We are now also leaving bulls in for 90 days even thought we only calve for 60 days. The cattle bred back in the 60 - 90 day interval are to sell them as bred cows for late calving operations versus just selling an open cow. I've figure I have already summered both cows and bulls so there is no downside to this procedure.
Hope this helps. One last thing. Buying other peoples bred cattle has been disappointing in that cattle don't always take to a ranch. I have kept records and find that rought 6% of purchased cattle drop out of my herd each year for various reasons for the first three years. This means a 24% loss of my investment which most buyers don't account for. Because of this, I not only lose the 24%, but I also have to sell her at a killer price and then buy in again at typically an even Higher Price.
Moral of the story? Keep replacement from the best cows at a rate that will allow you to have a fudge factor incase you want to cut deeper into replacing marginal cows that you would normally keep or sell bred heifers you don't need.
A very good breeding mineral started 60-90 days prior to breeding doesn't hurt.
One brand rules.
Gary

 

[wbvs58]

There is miles and miles of rugged range land here. Some of it is private and some is BLM. Cows spend the winter in the valley getting fed hay. When grass comes on in the spring the calves get branded and cows get kicked out to the hills. There are fences of sort but cows don't always stay where they are supposed to. And it is big enough area that if a cow goes to the neighbors or farther no one will know until the fall gather. A brand is a return address label. Very little out right stealing. But an unbranded calf shows up mixed in several hundred calves, whose calf is it?
Last year when we gathered the place where the one and done cows were there was 9 pairs belonging to 3 different neighbors caught up in the gather. There was 6 of our pairs that came home later out of the neighbors gathers. I have one pair which has never been seen.

Gives a good incentive to hold that branding iron on just a tad longer Dave.

Ken

 

[Lucky]

I have been having great success with either heifers, very late calvers, and coming 2 yrs. We operate a heat sync system where we feed MGA along with a filler feed for taste for two weeks. This stops them from cycling and they start gaining weight. We then give them a shot of progesterone.
In 3 to 5 days they will experience a false cycle. Then the next full cycle is a very heavy cycle where the majority of heifers are believed to take.
What we experienced was 80 % of our heifers bred back during the false cycle. The remaining heifers in the second full cycle. Always a stragler or two but when vet preg tests there are seems to be an issue with reproductive organs. The vet has verified the false cycle being the time frame of the breeding success. This was a shock but a pleasant one. 40-50 heifers typically retained per year.
This has also taken our late calvers and made them into first cycle rebreeds almost exclusively. Our goal is too have a 45 day breeding operation.
This quick weight gain and then breeding has made a huge difference in our replacement heifer program.
By starting our breeding system early, (3-4 weeks) the heifer calves born early keep up with weights of older cows calves as a whole. Better weights, better conformity, more heifer calves sold for replacement breeding heifers. Win win win.
Its an easy process once you try it.
We are now also leaving bulls in for 90 days even thought we only calve for 60 days. The cattle bred back in the 60 - 90 day interval are to sell them as bred cows for late calving operations versus just selling an open cow. I've figure I have already summered both cows and bulls so there is no downside to this procedure.
Hope this helps. One last thing. Buying other peoples bred cattle has been disappointing in that cattle don't always take to a ranch. I have kept records and find that rought 6% of purchased cattle drop out of my herd each year for various reasons for the first three years. This means a 24% loss of my investment which most buyers don't account for. Because of this, I not only lose the 24%, but I also have to sell her at a killer price and then buy in again at typically an even Higher Price.
Moral of the story? Keep replacement from the best cows at a rate that will allow you to have a fudge factor incase you want to cut deeper into replacing marginal cows that you would normally keep or sell bred heifers you don't need.
A very good breeding mineral started 60-90 days prior to breeding doesn't hurt.
One brand rules.
Gary

Thanks for the reply. That sounds like excellent advice. I looked into synching the herd last year but didn't get it done. I have about the same cull rate on bought 4 and older cows as you describe. I've been thinking about picking out my best 25 cows this spring and breeding them separately to my best bull to Start a heifer program. I've done heifers several times but just never really followed through with a year after year program. My most productive cows are ones that I've just selectively kept for one reason or the other.

 

[anewcomer]

nerancher, Thanks for a great post. I like to leave bulls in until preg check. We cull based on vet preg check. Even a short bred cow is worth $100-$200 more than an open kill cow. Did I understand that you believe your heifers are breeding 80% on that false heat after the MGA and progesterone? What was the issue with reproductive organs that the vet saw? Can’t follow the math on the 6% dropout for the first 3years. If 6% of purchased cattle fall out each year, you are losing the difference between buying a cow bred for your calving season and selling a short bred or open cow.This is an important number, but should be compared to the cost of raising a replacement heifer. In smaller herds, which most are, (less than maybe 300 head) this cost is probably in favor of the terminal herd. Would appreciate hearing your responses.Thanks.

 

[Stocker Steve]

So no I didn't miss out. They were cheap but didn't fit the program.

Good call. A big part of being successful is saying no.

 

[Brute 23]

I have been having great success with either heifers, very late calvers, and coming 2 yrs. We operate a heat sync system where we feed MGA along with a filler feed for taste for two weeks. This stops them from cycling and they start gaining weight. We then give them a shot of progesterone.
In 3 to 5 days they will experience a false cycle. Then the next full cycle is a very heavy cycle where the majority of heifers are believed to take.
What we experienced was 80 % of our heifers bred back during the false cycle. The remaining heifers in the second full cycle. Always a stragler or two but when vet preg tests there are seems to be an issue with reproductive organs. The vet has verified the false cycle being the time frame of the breeding success. This was a shock but a pleasant one. 40-50 heifers typically retained per year.
This has also taken our late calvers and made them into first cycle rebreeds almost exclusively. Our goal is too have a 45 day breeding operation.
This quick weight gain and then breeding has made a huge difference in our replacement heifer program.
By starting our breeding system early, (3-4 weeks) the heifer calves born early keep up with weights of older cows calves as a whole. Better weights, better conformity, more heifer calves sold for replacement breeding heifers. Win win win.
Its an easy process once you try it.
We are now also leaving bulls in for 90 days even thought we only calve for 60 days. The cattle bred back in the 60 - 90 day interval are to sell them as bred cows for late calving operations versus just selling an open cow. I've figure I have already summered both cows and bulls so there is no downside to this procedure.
Hope this helps. One last thing. Buying other peoples bred cattle has been disappointing in that cattle don't always take to a ranch. I have kept records and find that rought 6% of purchased cattle drop out of my herd each year for various reasons for the first three years. This means a 24% loss of my investment which most buyers don't account for. Because of this, I not only lose the 24%, but I also have to sell her at a killer price and then buy in again at typically an even Higher Price.
Moral of the story? Keep replacement from the best cows at a rate that will allow you to have a fudge factor incase you want to cut deeper into replacing marginal cows that you would normally keep or sell bred heifers you don't need.
A very good breeding mineral started 60-90 days prior to breeding doesn't hurt.
One brand rules.
Gary

That's probably one of the best posts I have seen on this board.

I have seen simular results with purchased cattle. They have a higher cull rate than our replacements.

I'm not a fan of just running down to the auction to fill a hole. With the thin margins on calves, the wrong cow can cost you more than she and several others will make you.