When to sell older cow

[zendog]

I have several questions. I will ask them all in this forum. Sorry if this is out of order. I also apologize for my ignorance, I am a small hobby farmer.

I now have 11 lowline angus cattle. 4 steers will butcher next September. 1 heifer will be a replacement. 6 pregnant cows to calve in April.

Question 1. Should I have the cows preg checked. I did this last year and all were pregnant. I used the same bull this year. I do not have cattle handling equipment so this is a pretty big deal requiring a visit from a vet with a squeeze chute and jury rigging portable cattle panels.

Question 2. Do I need to give my cows this anti abort shot? If the vet is coming it is a no brainer. But catching the cows is a major effort for me. Do I just bite the bullet and catch them? What is the risk if I do not give them the shot?

Question 3. Two of the pregnant cows are 1/2 lowline Angus 10 years old. When is the best time to sell them -- now when they are pregnant (and healthy), after they calve with the 3/4 lowline calf at their side, or next year after the calf is weened? My goal is to make the most money after feeding and other expenses. And where do I sell them? Are cows this old of any value as breed stock or do they go to the auction house? Being 1/2 lowline, they are worth a little more than standard Angus as breed stock but as hamburger, they are just beef.

Question 4. The calves (4 steers, 1 heifer) were born in April. When do I ween them?

Thanks. I am sure these are easy questions for an experienced cattleman but it is a mystery the first time around.

 

[angie1]

I have several questions. I will ask them all in this forum. Sorry if this is out of order. I also apologize for my ignorance, I am a small hobby farmer.
Don't apologize for your ignorance ~ no one else on here does. Often small hobby farmers do a tremendous amount of research.

Question 1. Should I have the cows preg checked.
Depends. Are you going to sell them if they are open or are you going to hold them over the winter and give them another chance next year? If you are not going to cull open cows, don't bother preg checking.

Question 2. Do I need to give my cows this anti abort shot?
No.
Have they been vaccinated?

Question 3. Two of the pregnant cows are 1/2 lowline Angus 10 years old. When is the best time to sell them -- now when they are pregnant (and healthy), after they calve with the 3/4 lowline calf at their side, or next year after the calf is weened? My goal is to make the most money after feeding and other expenses. And where do I sell them? Are cows this old of any value as breed stock or do they go to the auction house? Being 1/2 lowline, they are worth a little more than standard Angus as breed stock but as hamburger, they are just beef.
Sell them in the Spring with healthy calf at side, or shortly before they calf (this last would be best IMO). If you sell a bred cow, you will have to have to have them preg checked at the sale barn before they go through the ring (which is where I would sell them if they were mine) It does not hardly cost anything.

Question 4. The calves (4 steers, 1 heifer) were born in April. When do I ween them?
Now.

These are only my opinions.
Best of luck.

Use the money from your sale to get the handling equipment. It is much easier and safer for you and your vet. I for sure know what its like to work without.

 

[angus9259]

Listen to Angie - good stuff.

That said, if you plan to make money - you need to know your cows are bred.

Also, if you plan to make money, you need to have a handling system.

 

[Cowdirt]

zendog, I agree with other posters on the need for handling facilities. It need not be real elaborate but I would advise to begin that as soon as practical for your situation. I use the chronological age of cows very little to make sell-decisions. If the animal still moves good, still raises a good calf and is generally healthy; she is more welcome on my place that a replacement of unknown value. One ten yr. old may be ready for the bone yard and another may have 4 or 5 more calves left. On the subject of preg checking: If the cows are where you can observe them they will let you know fairly quickly if they are bred. JMO

 

[Bez+]

Been keeping cows past ten years for a long time now

Have had cows get up in the mid teens and even late teens and raise a decent calf

Longevity is something people breed for

If she is doing good we keep her

If she is doing poor we sell her

Only you can judge, but there are a heck of a pile of ranchers that value their "over ten years old" cows. Which by the way is NOT old for a good breeding cow.

Old cows generally go for "burger" but in fact all the choice cuts are removed first - even the dairy gals - who do you think supplies those fast food steak places?

Preg check such a small number? Not a hope in heck. Not worth it for a small group and anyone who knows anything about cows can get a good idea about their status - riding being one. Bet you see them every day - not a guaranteed method but for you in this situation - plenty good enough.

On our place being open is a sure way to the sale barn.

Selling an open is normal and sale barns can do it - or fatten her and eat her.

Selling a bred is good if you get the dollar YOU want - or at the sale barn - some risk here - usually go to slaughter anyways.

Selling with calf at side AND bred may get you the most dollars - but may set back your plans.

Each situation is different and each person has their own set standards.

In the end - if you want to maximize money - then you set your prices and then market the heck out of them - that is the only way you will get ahead.

Or be a price taker at the auction barn.

Cheers

Bez+

 

[angie1]

Bez and Cd make good points about selling your older cow. I did not address the issue because you did not ask if you should, but when you should, and I cannot assume why you are wanting to sell. Since we are elaborating, angus#### is correct about knowing if your cows are bred in order to make money. A cow held over that is not bred is borrowing money and time from you.

 

[jkwilson]

My 2 cents from the school of "Doing Stupid Things for Years Without Learning my Lesson". I have a master's degree.

I'll reiterate that investing in handling facilities is the move you need to make. It is easier on you, better for the welfare of the animals, and it makes economic sense in the long run(assuming you don't buy a hydraulic system with an elaborate sweep and chute for a few cows). With handling facilities, you will treat the animals when they need it without risking injury to you or the animals. Preg checking can do so much to make your life easier. An observed breeding with matching palp date can give a pretty narrow window to watch for calving. Open cows can be culled (or the bull) before they spend the winter eating your feed.

It's hard to get the money an older cow that still raises a calf every year is worth. Sell them when they come up open on the preg check, they aren't making you any money, or you need room in the herd to replace them with a better animal.

 

[TexasBred]

It's hard to get the money an older cow that still raises a calf every year is worth. Sell them when they come up open on the preg check, they aren't making you any money, or you need room in the herd to replace them with a better animal.

I do it sort of backward. The first year she does not have plenty of milk and raise a calf the way she always has in the past I purposely don't breed her and cull her as quickly as possible.

 

[zendog]

Thanks for the help. I raise these lowline Angus more as a hobby than for the money but money IS a consideration. Part of the hobby is paying for everything and still having a dollar left over at the end of the year. I sell them by the side as "boutique", primarily grass-fed beef. The goal of my operation is: "I will raise the very best quality steak for my own table and sell what I do not eat!" I do pretty well, there is no finer eating beef anywhere and I sell the excess at $.25 per pound (on the hoof) more than current market price.

I want to sell the two older cows to keep my herd small enough to subsist on the grass in my pasture during spring and summer. I do not have enough pasture to carry 11 cows and 6 calves next summer. I may have to sell some more. I am gradually improving the quality of my herd going from 1/2 lowline to 3/4 or better. So far, this seems to the best breed of cattle for my type of operation.

The vet who preg checked them last year said that an open cow will cost you 5 years profit on that cow.

I keep close track of my costs. Depending on what I can find used, it will take me several years profit to pay for even modestly priced cattle handling equipment, but it looks like something that even a small operation needs. Unfortunately, cattle handling equipment is one of those items where economy of scale works in favor of the larger operator.

 

[chippie]

We only have a few cows, but they are all halter broke and my husband uses a home made trim chute for palpating and breeding.

Putting off handling facilities can cost you in the long run. Check on craigslist and farm auctions for used equipment. You don't have to spend thousands of dollars to build a holding pen and chute. You can get by with a head gate.
How do you worm and vaccinate them?

 

[SRBeef]

There seems to be a lot of good information in this thread. As a beginner one of the things I learned very quickly is the need for some sort of handling facility - whether you have a couple head or a couple hundred head. This is not a nice to have but a must for your safety and the health of your cattle. Having some way to handle then calmly and safely also makes having cattle more enjoyable.

There is nothing wrong with paying the vet $25 to bring his chute. All you need is an enclosed area preferably with mostly solid (opaque) sides with a gate on the inlet and with a sweep gate inside to crowd them into a narrow single file alley. This should be near the road or a place the vet can back his trailed chute up to.

I would suggest you use this corral as a place to feed your cattle some sweet feed every once in awhile. Then they will learn to come to you. While they are eating their treat in a small feed bunk in the corral, you slip around the outside and close the incoming gate. Then they are going where you want them to, calmly and safely.

I built mine after one ornery cow that I was culling decided she did not want to get into that dark trailer and pushed a wired up panel over on me almost breaking my arm. At that point I figured a handling facility was less expensive than the likely medical bills.

Your vet will also be more interested in coming to your place if he knows its not going to be a rodeo every visit.

I would also say that you should preg check your cattle no matter how many you have. I for one cannot really tell they are pregnant by looking at them until its way to close to calving time. By then you've paid to feed them most of the winter and its too late. No matter how many you have I would suggest a twice a year vet visit. During the fall visit he can preg check along with the shots and pour. At that point any open can be sorted out and culled immediately.

Good luck.

Jim

 

[Cowdirt]

There seems to be a lot of good information in this thread. As a beginner one of the things I learned very quickly is the need for some sort of handling facility - whether you have a couple head or a couple hundred head. This is not a nice to have but a must for your safety and the health of your cattle. Having some way to handle then calmly and safely also makes having cattle more enjoyable.

There is nothing wrong with paying the vet $25 to bring his chute. All you need is an enclosed area preferably with mostly solid (opaque) sides with a gate on the inlet and with a sweep gate inside to crowd them into a narrow single file alley. This should be near the road or a place the vet can back his trailed chute up to.

I would suggest you use this corral as a place to feed your cattle some sweet feed every once in awhile. Then they will learn to come to you. While they are eating their treat in a small feed bunk in the corral, you slip around the outside and close the incoming gate. Then they are going where you want them to, calmly and safely.

I built mine after one ornery cow that I was culling decided she did not want to get into that dark trailer and pushed a wired up panel over on me almost breaking my arm. At that point I figured a handling facility was less expensive than the likely medical bills.

Your vet will also be more interested in coming to your place if he knows its not going to be a rodeo every visit.

I would also say that you should preg check your cattle no matter how many you have. I for one cannot really tell they are pregnant by looking at them until its way to close to calving time. By then you've paid to feed them most of the winter and its too late. No matter how many you have I would suggest a twice a year vet visit. During the fall visit he can preg check along with the shots and pour. At that point any open can be sorted out and culled immediately.

Good luck.

Jim

Jim, except for the occasional cow, they will cycle about every 21 days if they are not bred. Unless one is never around the cows, not much time should be lost in detecting open cows.

 

[SRBeef]

CD - In addition to being a beginner I am also not around my cattle very much. But I can tell an animal in heat. However, if an animal is NOT in heat is it because she's bred or because I haven't seen her every day and she was in heat while I was not there...

For what my vet charges to preg check during the regular fall working I would just as soon rely on his experience. My vet was remarkably accurate last year in his "months bred" determination at preg check time.

The main thing to me is to get an open cow or heifer off of my payroll as soon as possible and before winter. With a good, tested bull and a fairly low cow to bull ratio, running in close quarters most of the time, if they are not bred that means something is wrong with that cow or heifer. Finding that out is well worth the minimal extra vet charge ($5?). Finding one open and culling immediately to me means significant dollar savings and keeping a fertile herd.

Jim

 

[Cowdirt]

CD - In addition to being a beginner I am also not around my cattle very much. But I can tell an animal in heat. However, if an animal is NOT in heat is it because she's bred or because I haven't seen her every day and she was in heat while I was not there...

For what my vet charges to preg check during the regular fall working I would just as soon rely on his experience. My vet was remarkably accurate last year in his "months bred" determination at preg check time.

The main thing to me is to get an open cow or heifer off of my payroll as soon as possible and before winter. With a good, tested bull and a fairly low cow to bull ratio, running in close quarters most of the time, if they are not bred that means something is wrong with that cow or heifer. Finding that out is well worth the minimal extra vet charge ($5?). Finding one open and culling immediately to me means significant dollar savings and keeping a fertile herd.

Jim

Jim, there's nothing wrong with your logic. I can look out my window and see most of my cows anytime and I'm walking amongst them everyday unless I'm sick. That's ONE advantage of being old and retired. I know when a cow is bred about as quick as she and the bull

 

[SRBeef]

CD - In addition to being a beginner I am also not around my cattle very much. But I can tell an animal in heat. However, if an animal is NOT in heat is it because she's bred or because I haven't seen her every day and she was in heat while I was not there...

For what my vet charges to preg check during the regular fall working I would just as soon rely on his experience. My vet was remarkably accurate last year in his "months bred" determination at preg check time.

The main thing to me is to get an open cow or heifer off of my payroll as soon as possible and before winter. With a good, tested bull and a fairly low cow to bull ratio, running in close quarters most of the time, if they are not bred that means something is wrong with that cow or heifer. Finding that out is well worth the minimal extra vet charge ($5?). Finding one open and culling immediately to me means significant dollar savings and keeping a fertile herd.

Jim

Jim, there's nothing wrong with your logic. I can look out my window and see most of my cows anytime and I'm walking amongst them everyday unless I'm sick. That's ONE advantage of being old and retired. I know when a cow is bred about as quick as she and the bull

CD, you're not "old and retired" you are just "real experienced"! I don't doubt that you can tell, I just can't. But I think learning something new everyday is what keeps us young. I get the feeling cattle will keep us young for a long time! Always something new to learn.

Regards,

Jim

 

[jkwilson]

Your vet will also be more interested in coming to your place if he knows its not going to be a rodeo every visit.

This point shouldn't be ignored.

When you call at 3am for help with a breech, my bet is he isn't thinking "Boy, I hope we get to chase her around 20 acres in the mud, then chase her around the post trying to get the chains on!"