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What would happen

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hurleyjd

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What would happen if China who produces 90% of the rare earth minerals world wide shut the world off from these minerals. Would the other countries be able to ramp up production. Rare earth minerals are used in nearly everything such as compact starter for automobiles, colored TVs solar panels, wind powered generators. Chips for computers and cell phones. Anything else that comes to mind please post. Also China tied up all of the mineral rights in Afghanistan. Also a lot of minerals in Africa.
 

ddd75

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i thought most of that was mined by african slave children.
 

Bright Raven

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What would happen: a global trade war, par excellence! The US and its allies would retaliate.

Why would they? They got the world right where they want them. I like their future!
 

jltrent

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I have heard this before. We have enough junk already with this in it to last forever if needed to reuse. We have this in the US, but our environmental agency keeps from allowing it to be mined because of the impact on the environment and would cost more for us to mine than to buy from China. Kinda like the oil, after fracking, shale oil, and ethanol got cheap enough we no longer need their oil.

https://www.ft.com/content/2c3dea3e-3fc ... 6b95f30f58

https://www.marketplace.org/2017/06/26/ ... tals-china
 

Bright Raven

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jltrent":11mps14m said:
I have heard this before. We have enough junk already with this in it to last forever if needed to reuse. We have this in the US, but our environmental agency keeps from allowing it to be mined because of the impact on the environment and would cost more for us to mine than to buy from China. Kinda like the oil, after fracking, shale oil, and ethanol got cheap enough we no longer need their oil.

https://www.ft.com/content/2c3dea3e-3fc ... 6b95f30f58

https://www.marketplace.org/2017/06/26/ ... tals-china

Trent: Environmental Agencies may be the armpit of all creation but they CANNOT LEGISLATE! Agencies of state and federal government can ONLY (legally) carry out the mandate of the legislatures of this great nation and its states. In my entire 33 year career with the federal civil service and limited time as a liaison to regulatory agencies in my capacity with Tesoro Coal Company, I am not aware of a single case where an agency acted on it's own authority to stop any mine or mining activity. What I think you mean is that the environmental agencies are authorized by legislative action to enforce the mandate of elected officials who may set aside certain areas from mining activity.

PS: I acknowledge that someone can dig up some fake news that says "EPA stops mining in Stinking Creek Canyon". If they did, it was under the authorities vested in them by legislative action.
 

jltrent

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Bright Raven":139tql78 said:
jltrent":139tql78 said:
I have heard this before. We have enough junk already with this in it to last forever if needed to reuse. We have this in the US, but our environmental agency keeps from allowing it to be mined because of the impact on the environment and would cost more for us to mine than to buy from China. Kinda like the oil, after fracking, shale oil, and ethanol got cheap enough we no longer need their oil.

https://www.ft.com/content/2c3dea3e-3fc ... 6b95f30f58

https://www.marketplace.org/2017/06/26/ ... tals-china

Trent: Environmental Agencies may be the armpit of all creation but they CANNOT LEGISLATE! Agencies of state and federal government can ONLY (legally) carry out the mandate of the legislatures of this great nation and its states. In my entire 33 year career with the federal civil service and limited time as a liaison to regulatory agencies in my capacity with Tesoro Coal Company, I am not aware of a single case where an agency acted on it's own authority to stop any mine or mining activity. What I think you mean is that the environmental agencies are authorized by legislative action to enforce the mandate of elected officials who may set aside certain areas from mining activity.

PS: I acknowledge that someone can dig up some fake news that says "EPA stops mining in Stinking Creek Canyon". If they did, it was under the authorities vested in them by legislative action.
The same thing I said, except you went into more detail and broke it down step by step.
 

Bright Raven

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My point is: elected officials of both parties are responsible for removing lands from mining.
 

jltrent

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Bright Raven":3bsxm279 said:
My point is: elected officials of both parties are responsible for removing lands from mining.
Elected officials run our country, as I remember a former elected President that just about ruined the coal industry with the environmental people he put in place.
 

Bright Raven

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jltrent":2uw2r55g said:
Bright Raven":2uw2r55g said:
My point is: elected officials of both parties are responsible for removing lands from mining.
Elected officials run our country, as I remember a former elected President that just about ruined the coal industry with the environmental people he put in place.

It was and is a function of economics. Obviously, some benefit from spinning it that way. Be that as it is, my only objective is understanding where the authority of agencies comes from. The elected officials like to do things then when they go sour, blame someone else. Both parties play that game. You know that. We all do.
 

jltrent

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Bright Raven":32cxxl08 said:
jltrent":32cxxl08 said:
Bright Raven":32cxxl08 said:
My point is: elected officials of both parties are responsible for removing lands from mining.
Elected officials run our country, as I remember a former elected President that just about ruined the coal industry with the environmental people he put in place.

It was and is a function of economics. Obviously, some benefit from spinning it that way. Be that as it is, my only objective is understanding where the authority of agencies comes from. The elected officials like to do things then when they go sour, blame someone else. Both parties play that game. You know that. We all do.
Yes
 

True Grit Farms

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The liberals wanted the EPA, and the Republicans were bought off trying to be politically correct. Same as this illegal immigration bs, except both sides know their illegal and law breakers. Lots of picking and choosing on both sides, I just don't want to be picked.
 

Brute 23

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Coal did not fall because of govt regulation. It fell because of economics. If your looking for some one to blame, blame cheap natural gas.
 

Bright Raven

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Brute 23":3qgewmyo said:
Coal did not fall because of govt regulation. It fell because of economics. If your looking for some one to blame, blame cheap natural gas.

I am very pleased to hear that. I agree 100 %. In fact, British Petroleum made a case for why they were not investing in American Coal and guess what - it was all based on ECONOMICS
 

greybeard

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Bright Raven":2bsycl3p said:
Brute 23":2bsycl3p said:
Coal did not fall because of govt regulation. It fell because of economics. If your looking for some one to blame, blame cheap natural gas.

I am very pleased to hear that. I agree 100 %. In fact, British Petroleum made a case for why they were not investing in American Coal and guess what - it was all based on ECONOMICS

I too am pleased to know that environmental impact studies, permits, regulatory compliance costs, ground and ground water monitoring, and even fines are not part of any business or corporate 'economic' considerations when deciding what to invest in, stay in or expand in.

if the greenies ever get their way, and I have to capture all the methane my cattle emit, prevent any runoff of their body waste, and pay for all the equipment that will entail, I'm pretty sure non of those associated costs won't be part of my 'economic' considerations. All that will just grow on trees, ripe for me to go out and pluck off....at NO COST to MEEEE!
:bs:

Impact of Oil, Gas and other Hydrocarbon Reserves, Prices and Margins on Testing for Impairment. The Corporation performs impairment assessments whenever events or circumstances indicate that the carrying amounts of its long-lived assets (or group of assets) may not be recoverable through future operations or disposition. Assets are grouped at the lowest level for which there are identifiable cash flows that are largely independent of the cash flows of other groups of assets for this assessment.

Potential trigger events for impairment evaluation include:

· a significant decrease in the market price of a long-lived asset;

· a significant adverse change in the extent or manner in which an asset is being used or in its physical condition including a significant decrease in current and projected reserve volumes;

· a significant adverse change in legal factors or in the business climate that could affect the value, including an adverse action or assessment by a regulator;

· an accumulation of project costs significantly in excess of the amount originally expected;

· a current-period operating loss combined with a history and forecast of operating or cash flow losses; and

· a current expectation that, more likely than not, a long-lived asset will be sold or otherwise disposed of significantly before the end of its previously estimated useful life.


. In the near term, we see variability in refining margins, with some regions seeing weaker margins as new capacity additions are expected to outpace growth in global demand for our products, which can also be affected by global economic conditions and regulatory changes.
 

Brute 23

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greybeard":cdfyc4x8 said:
Bright Raven":cdfyc4x8 said:
Brute 23":cdfyc4x8 said:
Coal did not fall because of govt regulation. It fell because of economics. If your looking for some one to blame, blame cheap natural gas.

I am very pleased to hear that. I agree 100 %. In fact, British Petroleum made a case for why they were not investing in American Coal and guess what - it was all based on ECONOMICS

I too am pleased to know that environmental impact studies, permits, regulatory compliance costs, ground and ground water monitoring, and even fines are not part of any business or corporate 'economic' considerations when deciding what to invest in, stay in or expand in.

if the greenies ever get their way, and I have to capture all the methane my cattle emit, prevent any runoff of their body waste, and pay for all the equipment that will entail, I'm pretty sure non of those associated costs won't be part of my 'economic' considerations. All that will just grow on trees, ripe for me to go out and pluck off....at NO COST to MEEEE!
:bs:

Impact of Oil, Gas and other Hydrocarbon Reserves, Prices and Margins on Testing for Impairment. The Corporation performs impairment assessments whenever events or circumstances indicate that the carrying amounts of its long-lived assets (or group of assets) may not be recoverable through future operations or disposition. Assets are grouped at the lowest level for which there are identifiable cash flows that are largely independent of the cash flows of other groups of assets for this assessment.

Potential trigger events for impairment evaluation include:

· a significant decrease in the market price of a long-lived asset;

· a significant adverse change in the extent or manner in which an asset is being used or in its physical condition including a significant decrease in current and projected reserve volumes;

· a significant adverse change in legal factors or in the business climate that could affect the value, including an adverse action or assessment by a regulator;

· an accumulation of project costs significantly in excess of the amount originally expected;

· a current-period operating loss combined with a history and forecast of operating or cash flow losses; and

· a current expectation that, more likely than not, a long-lived asset will be sold or otherwise disposed of significantly before the end of its previously estimated useful life.


. In the near term, we see variability in refining margins, with some regions seeing weaker margins as new capacity additions are expected to outpace growth in global demand for our products, which can also be affected by global economic conditions and regulatory changes.

Sorry but its a fact. People can play the blame game all they want but it is reality. All the other forms of energy deal with same env regs so its an even playing field. If you completely de-reg coal and the other forms of energy... coal still costs more.

We have discussed this in other threads many times over. I know people who deal with all forms of power generation and they will tell you flat out coal is done. Its straight up numbers. Coal plants have to have long term contracts, easily sourced coal, and be running non-stop to make even thin margins. The man power and general logistics of operating a coal plant are their own worse enemy. You can literally run a natural gas plant with a hand full of people and if you don't have a contract you can fire up in peak times only and still be ok. Especially now with wind being a legit contender it does not make sense to put money in to coal powered energy. Supposedly their are big things coming down the pipe on batteries that are going to make solar become a condender also.

I'm sorry but when the money leaves and says we're done... its done.
 

Bright Raven

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Brute 23":2395c4r1 said:
Sorry but its a fact. People can play the blame game all they want but it is reality. All the other forms of energy deal with same env regs so its an even playing field. If you completely de-reg coal and the other forms of energy... coal still costs more.

We have discussed this in other threads many times over. I know people who deal with all forms of power generation and they will tell you flat out coal is done. Its straight up numbers. Coal plants have to have long term contracts, easily sourced coal, and be running non-stop to make even thin margins. The man power and general logistics of operating a coal plant are their own worse enemy. You can literally run a natural gas plant with a hand full of people and if you don't have a contract you can fire up in peak times only and still be ok. Especially now with wind being a legit contender it does not make sense to put money in to coal powered energy. Supposedly their are big things coming down the pipe on batteries that are going to make solar become a condender also.

I'm sorry but when the money leaves and says we're done... its done.

Well stated and all that needs to be said. If someone wants some reading, there are hundreds of reports that address the economics of using coal to produce energy.

Cheaper alternative energies, not increased regulation, are the main factors driving the decline of U.S. coal consumption and production, according to a recent Economic Synopses essay.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-econo ... regulation

https://www.forbes.com/sites/energyinno ... 0bd5d752b3
 

ddd75

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jehosofat":ifs85v6z said:
ddd75":ifs85v6z said:
i thought most of that was mined by african slave children.

Your thinking about cotton. :lol2:


nah.. slavery is more rampant today then ever. Blacks enslaving blacks (must be racists)

40k kids per day mining cobalt for your batteries (cell phone // telsa cars // all electronics)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt-chi ... stigation/


lots of this type of activity all over..

but but.. but.. but...!! The immigrant kids are without mommy who gave them abortion pills and left them on a train with rapists to go to the USA!!!!! When will they be reunited with that GREAT FAMILY?!?!?
 

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