What to look for in a good bag?

[A6gal]

This question is in response to the "cull cow" question with the one enlarged teet on another post.

What do you look for in an "ideal" beef cow utter?

And, other than the obvious one enlarged teat on the other thread, what are some other things to look for in a teat that may become a potential problem?

I usually wait until there is a problem to post questions, but thought I'd get some info that might nip some potential problems in the bud before they develop.

 

[MikeC]

http://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic. ... light=milk

The first cow in this pic has a pretty good udder. The second one iis NOT! The third one is fair.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

A6gal, some good things to look for are symmetry, good strong udder attatchments both front and rear, good sized udder that's not too small. Poor qualities would be what I call beer-bottle-teats that are too large for a calf to get it's mouth on, a sagging udder (I think it was Bez who had a cow he called "swing-bag"), an udder so small it has hardly any milk in it.
I'm sure there are more qualities to look for, both good and bad, that I've missed that other folks can help you out with.

Katherine

 

[A6gal]

I understand the second picture referred to in Mike C's post is not a good udder, but why? Just because of aesthetics? Teats too large causing calf to have a hard time sucking? Why is a saggy, large bag or large teats undesirable if your just raising beef calves, not, replacement calves, show calves or registered cattle? Will they get worse with each calf? Not good genetics to pass on to next generation?

My un-experienced (emphasis on un-experienced) thought would be "it looks like she's got a lot of milk and that would be better for the calf as long as it doesn't have problems latching on to the teat".

 

[MikeC]

I understand the second picture referred to in Mike C's post is not a good utter, but why? Just because of aesthetics? Teats too large causing calf to have a hard time sucking? Why is a saggy, large bag or large teats undesirable? Will they get worse with each calf?

My un-experienced (emphasis on un-experienced) thought would be "it looks like she's got a lot of milk and that would be better for the calf as long as it doesn't have problems latching on to the teat".

Partially because of aesthetics, but that is a 1st calf heifer. Her udder will only get worse. The calf can suck now but can it after the cow has 4-5 calves?

Cows with proper udders usually stay that way for life. Longevity is a key element in the cow business.

 

[dun]

I just looked at the pictures so I'm getting into this late. Large teats can make it difficult for a new born calf to nurse.
But I wouldn;t have culled any of them. WHile it is a possibility that the udder (not utter) would break down and or the tests continue to enlarge with subsequent calves, it ain;t always the way things work out. In the long run she may not last as long as the others, but you can never tell. She also looks like she has just calved, engorment of teats isn;t all that unusual at calving, after nursing for a day or two they frequently recede in size. At the dollar value of todays calves, I'ld keep the young lady around until at least the udder/teats really break down or the bottom falls out of the calf market and you need to cull deeper.

dun

 

[A6gal]

MikeC and all, thanks for the information it is always helpful to me to know the reasoning behind the answers. I have a cow with an udder like the second cow in the pic. She just calved and I did notice the calf had a hard time latching on. I was worried and watched it closely for the first couple of hours but it figured it out and is doing fine. Her bag does seem worse this year than with last years calf. I guess she goes with the calf in the fall. I wouldn't want to have to end up bottle feeding one.

 

[Frankie]

My un-experienced (emphasis on un-experienced) thought would be "it looks like she's got a lot of milk and that would be better for the calf as long as it doesn't have problems latching on to the teat".

The size of the udder doesn't necessarily tell you how much milk the cow's producing. I don't know where they hide it, but some of the best producing cows on my place have some of the smaller, tight, neat udders. EXT cows, in particular, tend to have that sort of udder. Another old bull that we liked a lot GDAR Rito 596 LT (ABS called him Pierre) produced daughters with wonderful udders, yet their calves were always near the top, weightwise, at weaning.

 

[MikeC]

MikeC and all, thanks for the information it is always helpful to me to know the reasoning behind the answers. I have a cow with an udder like the second cow in the pic. She just calved and I did notice the calf had a hard time latching on. I was worried and watched it closely for the first couple of hours but it figured it out and is doing fine. Her bag does seem worse this year than with last years calf. I guess she goes with the calf in the fall. I wouldn't want to have to end up bottle feeding one.

Plus the fact that her daughters will usually possess the same traits!

 

[MikeC]

My un-experienced (emphasis on un-experienced) thought would be "it looks like she's got a lot of milk and that would be better for the calf as long as it doesn't have problems latching on to the teat".

The size of the udder doesn't necessarily tell you how much milk the cow's producing. I don't know where they hide it, but some of the best producing cows on my place have some of the smaller, tight, neat udders. EXT cows, in particular, tend to have that sort of udder. Another old bull that we liked a lot GDAR Rito 596 LT (ABS called him Pierre) produced daughters with wonderful udders, yet their calves were always near the top, weightwise, at weaning.

You are right Frankie! Those cows with small udders are thought to have a higher "Butterfat" content in their milk. Calves thrive on "Fat".

 

[dun]

Plus the fact that her daughters will usually possess the same traits!

I've found that udder and tests are the easiest negative trait to fix with proper bull selection. The problem is that unless you really know what the bull will do in that area you have to wait 2 years to find out if you're right or not.

dun

 

[MikeC]

Plus the fact that her daughters will usually possess the same traits!

I've found that udder and tests are the easiest negative trait to fix with proper bull selection. The problem is that unless you really know what the bull will do in that area you have to wait 2 years to find out if you're right or not.

dun

I agree with you dun. But how many commercial breeders are even thinking about "Udder Quality" when purchasing bulls?

My train of thought says that keeping replacements out of the "Best" cows, along with what you are saying will get you where you want to be sooner.

 

[dun]

Misspelled again, should be teats not tests.
That's just one of the benefits of AI. We have one bull that will improve just about any udder or teat situation, we keep all of his daughters, problems is we've had mostly bulls from him.
We've always paid a lot of attention to udders and teats, could be why we don;t have much of a problem with them anymore. Same for feet and legs.

dun