What is she missing?

[Nesikep]

Well, my best producing cow has for some years had some retained placenta at calving time, and usually bred back on the second cycle, but this year I don't think she took on the 3rd, I'm thinking that being a heavy milker, she might need more of some mineral than the others, and I'm noticing some lighter coloured streaks in her fur. She is in otherwise fine condition, stays fat on lean pastures and her steer calf is 600 lbs at 4 1/2 months. We always feed mineral blocks, but alternate between mineral and mineral +Selenium, and around calving time we feed only mineral+selenium (our newborn calves are always pretty strong)

Here is a pictures I took of her hide this afternoon, notice the "spiderweb" appearance, I see very slight signs of it in other animals, but hers is the most noticable. I was thinking possibly copper, but getting an accurate diagnosis requires a liver biopsy, which isn't cheap or easy. any other ideas?

 

[TexasBred]

Does your soil contain a lot of iron? If so it could be copper deficiency.

 

[Anonymous]

600# 4 1/2 month calf......what she needs is the calf weaned off. She's putting everything she has into the calf...my humble inexperienced opinion

 

[rockridgecattle]

I would look at copper deficiency because of the coloring and selenium for the RP (retained placenta).

 

[Nesikep]

Hooknline... she's in fine shape and an easy keeper... she should be able to milk and breed back...

rockridge, thanks for reminding me about how iron interferes with copper absorbtion.. that could be something, though I have no idea if our area is high in iron

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Wouldn't a soil sample test reveal that?

 

[Nesikep]

yep, it would.. could hardware in the stomach release a significant amount of iron?
we haven't done soil samples as far as I know, but I don't think I've worn off enough plow shares to make it high in iron yet

Spoke to the vet to day, going to get some blood samples done, if she is mildly low in copper it may not show up, but if the blood sample shows it's low, then she's probably really low, which is strange since the salt block we give contains copper. On the calcium/phosphorus balance, I would sooner suspect phosphorus as the lack since they are on a brome/alfalfa pasture, which is a poor absorber of phosphorus


Another oddity about this cow this year is that the bulls hang around her for 3 days and she wants nothing to do with them until the 3rd day... not sure what's up with that

Anyhow, I gotta run home to get the oat hay baled

I was doing some math with info on a few websites I saw, and if my math is correct

 

[Nesikep]

Well I got the lab results in today

Iodine 12 microgram/dl (range 6-30) OK
Phosphorus 1.9mg/dl (range 4.3-7.8) Very low
Selenium .062 ppm (range .06-.20) Marginal (and she had 8cc dystosel in august)
Calcium 10.3mg/dl (range 8-11) OK
Copper .4 ppm (range .5-1.2) LOW
Magnesium 2.41 mg/dl (range 1.8-3) OK
Zinc 1.22 pm (range .8-1.4) OK


Well, it looks like my guesses were bang on... the vet said that 8cc dystosel was a lot, but according to the label on the product and her weight, she could have had more.... Now I don't know how long lasting a selenium shot is, but considering she's just borderline on selenium, I would say she was low when I gave her the shot

Any comments?

 

[Nesikep]

Here is a link to the original document
https://docs.google.com/open?id=1IPA_CK ... 6hBrHN-NBm

 

[Anonymous]

I just noticed you said mineral "blocks"
Don't know if you tried loose mineral.
We're in a high iron area and I've seen cows eat wiring off a trailer to get to the copper.

 

[Nesikep]

the mineral blocks we have do contain copper, however no phosphorus

I heard that animals know what they're missing, but only to an extent
when they're thirsty, they want water
when they're hungry they want food
when they need salt, they know it
and when they need phosphorus, they will chew on ANYTHING (rocks, wood, bones, rope)
but when they're missing other things, they don't 'know' it

it sounds to me like your cattle may be missing phosphorus as well



BTW I'm starting this cow in particular, but the rest of the herd as well on 9:18 mineral... dont' have the mineral analysis handy right now, but I'll post it next week maybe

 

[JSCATTLE]

Maybe need to look at minerals tying up ..might need to go to celeated (s p ) minerals .

 

[Anonymous]

When I saw my cows eating the wiring, they had blocks out. When I put out a loose mineral feeder, it stopped. Try the loose mineral. They can get all they need without having to sit there and lick and lick.I think it takes too much effort for them to get what they need with the blocks

 

[Nesikep]

I'll be trying that particularly around calving/breeding season

 

[Mid South Guy]

Is your mineral block a true complete mineral block or is it a trace mineralized salt block (97% salt)? I suspect the later because of the phos deficiency. It takes 6-12 months to cure mineral deficiencies with consumption of a good free choice complete mineral balanced for your area and forage.

 

[Anonymous]

I personally wouldn't wait. The herd will be better off if you did it now

 

[Nesikep]

At the moment, all of them are bred except her, and I only have 1 bag of 9/18, so I'll be feeding it to her first... we also have to make a loose mineral feeder... it's been in the plans for a while, we just have to find a good way to keep the water out

 

[Nesikep]

Oh, and here's a pic of her in the headgate (notice the gates bowing), it was a challenge to unlatch them and get her out of there too...

I don't think she'll ever be able to get herself through the loading chute (lucky for her) she's 28" across the hips

I also did my first blood draw and didn't get kicked... she didn't even flinch

 

[rockridgecattle]

You need that mineral now! Not at calving. Then it is too late. Not all mineral is created equal either.
I am going to come out and say it...
Co-op animal mineral is not great quality. Feedrite/Hubbard or Ridley, make a good quality mineral. Don't know if feedrite is in BC but find a mineral which is of good quality. Blocks in Canada or atleast the prairies are just trace minerals not the fully needed stuff.
Now there is 1:1 or 16:16. 2:1 and 1:2. All three are used with different types of feed. A high grain ration will need some thing different that say a hay diet or pasture diet. Same with pasture or towards the end of the growing season. Talk to the nutritionist at feedrite or the BC equivalent feed mill.
As for a feeder, right now a simple tire with a bottom will work until you get a feeder made. Just do not put the whole bag out. Mix with equal parts salt, do not buy the mineral with premix salt.
If you feed grain daily, mix it into the grain or sprinkle on top.

Finally, that cow in the chute....how is her calf...did she have a calf? How did it wean out? Hope it was in the top 10% or she is costing you big time $ in feed and her conversion is not great...just saying.
Mineral now...the fall sale is now on...get er done...or you will have more calving problems than you can shake a stick at...and poor doer calves at birth and poor quality colostrum and poor wean weights and poorer conversion in feed...

 

[Mid South Guy]

... we also have to make a loose mineral feeder... it's been in the plans for a while, we just have to find a good way to keep the water out

Cheapest and quickest way I know of to make a mineral feeder is to do so from a plastic 55 gal barrel. Cut an opening on the side of the barrel directly below one of the top filler holes. Opening size about 1/4 down from top, 1/4-1/3 up from bottom, and about 1/4-1/3 of the circumference in width. Run a rope through the filler hole on top opposite the side opening, tie off a small piece of pipe on the inside so the rope won't pull back out, and hang from a tree limb near the water. Will hold about 200-300 pounds. The opening will stay tilted down and kept dry. May have to take up some rope as it stretches. Takes about 15 min to make.

You need that mineral now! Not at calving. Then it is too late. Not all mineral is created equal either.-Talk to the nutritionist at feedrite or the BC equivalent feed mill.
-

Could not agree more!!!! -- and not just this cow, the entire herd. The nutritionist should be able to guide you in the proper quality mineral for your area and forage.