What Breed is he???

[Galloways1]

I used Cydectin pour on. I don't (yet) have a chute to contain him, so pour-on is the only option I know of.
But lets go back to what to feed him, please...

What should I give to him to get rid of that roundness?

If you can get some Safeguard pellets, he only needs to eat 1 lb. Then you can worm him without restraining him. It sounds like he just eats alot of roughage, so he will have the big bellied look. Limit his hay intake, and gradually increase grain.

 

[lilfarmangel]

That's good information to know Galloway2!!! It's only me out here managing these animals, and my 140 lb frame is no match for a calf older than a few months!
I'll pick up some Safeguard when I go into town.

I would like to increase his "cereal" intake... (I call it cereal, because it reminds me of granola cereal with the mix of grains and pellets) What if I increased the calf manna, kept the rolled grain the same and start decreasing the hay? (and which hay should I cut down on, the alfala or the grass hay?) At his age, would that work to take the roundness off and allow me to increase his nutritional intake?

 

[chippie]

Read your labels. You can overfeed calf manna.
Don't let your size prevent you from working your cattle. It hasn't slowed my kids or myself from doing it.

 

[Galloways1]

That's good information to know Galloway2!!! It's only me out here managing these animals, and my 140 lb frame is no match for a calf older than a few months!
I'll pick up some Safeguard when I go into town.

I would like to increase his "cereal" intake... (I call it cereal, because it reminds me of granola cereal with the mix of grains and pellets) What if I increased the calf manna, kept the rolled grain the same and start decreasing the hay? (and which hay should I cut down on, the alfala or the grass hay?) At his age, would that work to take the roundness off and allow me to increase his nutritional intake?

Shoot for a 12-14% protien total ration. Calf mana is good, but as Chippie said, can be overfed. Depending on what your grain mix is, grass hay and the calf manna would suffice. If grain is a 12% sweet feed or all stock, that and alfalfa alone will be good. If alfalfa is scarce and expensive, you can use grass hay, and increase the protein level with the calf manna. not sure what feedstuffs you have available in quantity.

 

[-XBAR-]

She just said she wormed him with Cydectin. Cydectin is a great choice.

Give him about 6lbs of 20% cubes and that hay and you'll notice a difference in his conformation in no time.

 

[lilfarmangel]

The calf manna says 10% of creep for beef calves, 1 lb for dairy cows. I'm not using creep, so I think I'll stick with the ration for dairy as my guide line. I do have some protein to add to his feed… Grass hay and alfalfa are running about the same price – EXPENSIVE! A cheap bale (small bales) of either will run $9 for a 50 lb bale. If you want quality (again small bales, both alfalfa and grass) can run as high as $15/bale. And the bales are light, not many are at or above 60 lbs. We were hit by the drought this year. Chaffhaye is what many people are going with for nutrition in this area. Seems like the cubes/cake is no longer available like it was in years past.

Here's what I'm thinking; He's already getting a lot of alfalfa (alfalfa being calcium), if I increase the manna to 1 lb, keep the rolled grain the same, add another protein to his mix (creep or something similar) and cut out the alfalfa hay (he's already getting alfalfa pellets and chaffhaye (which is also alfalfa) so the additional alfalfa hay is just that, additional.), I can keep giving him grass hay (because I have more of that than I do alfalfa hay), then evaluate him in a month or so to check his condition.
The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I need to increase his protein...

No worries, Chippie... My size doesn't stop me, neither does someone telling me I can't do it or being the only human in a 2 mile radius… where there's a will, there's a way I've set up some pretty odd arrangements to achieve a goal. Stacking bricks, using ladders and the cab of my pickup to hold 2x4's & 2x6's until I can secure the other end.. and let's not forget the Quick Grip clamps!!! THOSE are a girl's best friend!!! lol
Tending to my animals is no different. I built my goat milk stand to be able to hold my bucks so I can trim hooves, give meds, vacc's and wormers. (I've had lots of weird looks when people hear I put male goats in a milk stand) However, I'm not about to rope a 9 month old, 500 lb (I'm guessing at the weight) calf without a way other than myself to anchor it. And if I can find a way to do the same job with less effort, you betcha I'm going to do it! My farm is set up to supply my food. I'm not going to spend money on feed for an animal I'll only use occasionally… so I don't have a horse, only a 4-wheeler.

hahaha, kinda figures I live in Wyoming… after reading on it's history, the people who settled this area were known for being independent and stubborn… didn't know that before I moved here! LOL! :lol:

 

[chippie]

Since he is in good flesh, you shouldn't need to change his diet unless you want to pack the weight on him. You should not cut back on the hay. The roughage helps him to keep warm and too much grain can mess up his digestive system if he doesn't have the roughage.
Deworm him and rethink your feeding program after a couple of weeks. If you want to feed him more grain, to finish him out would be fine, but watch your protein intake and keep the hay in front of him. I really wouldn't worry about spending the money on alfalfa. A good quality grass hay, the calf manna and a good creep or calf feed should be fine.

I almost forgot, you can also feed him beet pulp to help add roughage to his diet. You can feed the pellets mixed with his grain.

 

[lilfarmangel]

What happens with increased protein? Alfalfa has 15-20% protein with .9-1.5 calcium... The grass hay I have is around 7-11% protein with .3-.5% protein.. He's currently getting 3 forms of alfalfa, so cutting one and substituting grass hay (yeah, you're right I would be increasing the grass hay, but keep in mind, chaffhaye also supplies roughage) and giving him a "bump" of protein, would just about be pretty close to what I'm giving him now... right? This would decrease the amount of alfalfa I currently feed... like I said before, I have more grass hay than alfalfa this year.

I DO like the idea of the beet pulp!! I could use that as my protein "bump" as well...

 

[chippie]

The calf manna is 25% protein. Why are you trying to increase his protein so much? He is a beef breed, not a dairy breed.
The creep feed that we give our calves is 12% protein and they get free choice hay. I realize that we are in different climates.

 

[lilfarmangel]

Actually, I'm not soooo much trying to increase his protein as much as balance his over-all condition, while at the same time ration the hay I have (did I mention we had a drought this year?) and supplement with feed I can easily get.

But back to the protein question... I guess I'm concerned about the protein by reason of deduction; Dairy requires calcium and carb's for milk output... therefore, it reasons that beef requires protein & carb's for muscle growth... again, going back to what I've said several times now... I'm use to dairy, not beefers. Which is why I'm here... to learn about beefers.
I don't want to short his protein intake when adjusting his carb intake trying to make him look like a cow and not a very tall pig with long black hair. I totally agree with an earlier post saying he was malnourished as a calf - before I got him. That accounts for his roundness.
In the near future I'm going to put him out with my Jersey/angus steer (who is about a year and a half old) to free range. Being a Jersey cross, he's taller than this little guy (we've named him Chunk after the kid from the movie "The Goonies"). As boys will do, I'm sure the Jerseyx will try to mount Chunk and I'd like Chunk to be able to handle that weight without having to struggle with the roundness he already has...
Maybe I'm thinking waaaaaaaay too much, but I've already sold half of this calf and don't want to take any chances or get less out of him than he has potential for...

 

[chippie]

We have Jersey cattle too, but we fed our heifers & dairy calves the same 12 % heifer/creep feed and they grew up fine.
Feeding a cow that is being milked is not the same thing as feeding a beef steer.

You can overdo the amount of protein. Roughage is important for all cattle. They are grazing animals and they need it for their digestive system. I understand about there being a shortage of hay, but that is one thing that you have to be careful about scrimping on.

You will end up spending more money on the steer than you will get out of it. Do you keep records? How much $$$ are you spending on him for feed and hay?


ETA: This is a link to a publication from Texas A&M about feeding youth projects (steers & heifers). Even though you are not feeding to raise a show animal, the information here may help you because it also applies for feeding for carcass shows.

PROTEIN
The total diet should average around 11% to 13% crude
protein (CP) for most uses. Younger, growing animals
need more protein. Some feeders use a ration of around
12% CP throughout the feeding period.

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/files/2012/04/beef-feeds-and-feeding.pdf

Here is a link to the page with all of the beef publications:

http://animalscience.tamu.edu/academics/beef/publications/#nutrition

Good luck with him. I think that he will do fine.

 

[lilfarmangel]

missed again... I have more grass hay than alfalfa... the grass hay doesn't have as much nutritionally as alfalfa... that's what I'm trying to conserve... the alfalfa.
Again, all this goes back to my last post, if I can turn him out, he can graze for roughage and I can suppliment for nutrition, ie, chaffhaye, or whatever...
As for how much I've got into him, that will start to balance out after I get him turned out with the Jersey X... the sooner I turn him out, the sooner I can start to balance out that $$ out-go

Thanks for the link!! ) I'll save it and read it though... I work outside the farm as well... 3 day weekend shift... 12 hr days... 45 min one-way commute.. makes for long weekends. Not much time for reading... will read it on my first opportunity! Thanks again!

 

[-XBAR-]

Youre thinking way too much (its ok, I do constantly). IF you plan to eat him, you need to feed him a high energy diet just like you would dairy cattle. High protein diet will cause him to grow frame. High energy diet will cause him to fill out. Protein and energy are not mutually exclusive. Initially I would feed him a high energy diet that is also high protein and as he gets adequate frame, reduce the protein will still maintaining a high energy ration.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't think this animal looks excessively bellied down. I think you are not used to seeing a well muscled, big ribbed beef animal.
K.I.S. All he needs is shell corn & good quality hay. I think you are over-complicating things - along with everyone else. If I remember correctly, he's 9 months old. He needs max - 12% protein - that's all. He does not need calf manna. He's feedlot age - not a calf.
Here's a 9.5 month old heifer - short legs, big bellie - won Sr Calf Champion (she was also an orphan)

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We feed out steers, and eventually get them to a mostly grain diet. Our goal is to get the to weight as quickly as possible, as cheaply as possible, and yield choice or higher. We are currently feeding a Feb steer for our carcass contest, and he is on about 16 pounds of bull ration (it is a cheaper winter feed with ruminsen in it that we are using this winter. Protein 12%, Fat 2.5%, and Fiber 25% ) and free choice fescue hay. As he gains (I would guess he is about 900 pounds right now, our weigh in is not until next month), we up his grain and pull him back on the hay. We will switch his feed to a custom mix we make in the spring and summer. At the end, the steers just get a handful of hay twice a day, enough to keep the rumen going and happy. Bring him up on the grain slowly. If they are given too much grain too fast they will develop stomach problems and will perform poorly from then on. Steers should be fed regularly twice a day. Irregular feeding can also cause stomach distress and permanent stomach damage.
Steers will eat about 2.75 percent of their body weight every day, so I would up his grain. You said he was around 900 pounds, that means he should be getting 24 pounds of feed (grain and hay combined). Calf mana is not needed if you have access to a good quality beef grain (grower at this point). I would bet his pot belly is from hay, commonly called a hay belly!

By the way Jeanne, good looking heifer! What is her breeding? She looks pretty good for not having all the extras in her feed

 

[iowafarmer]

Jeanne and Fire Sweep covered what I was saying. I was not sure what you have available in your area for finishing out a steer. We use corn but I also live in Iowa where corn is plentiful. That is why I suggested talking to a nutritionist at the feed store where you get your feed from as they will be able to help you the best on developping the best ration for the least amount of money. Best of luck to ya.

 

[chippie]

Seems like everyone agrees that a 12% protein beef feed and grass hay should be fine.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

FSR - thanks! She's a Clrwtr Shock Force out of my deceased donor cow SS Nadine (Joker x Breathtaker). She did get better feed because I started feeding her at 5 days old - totally a different nutritional "need". Yes, she got calf manna & protein pellets along with SHELL CORN & Vita Ferm. We managed to keep her mom alive & around til she was 4 months of age & she was able to nurse mom a little during that time along with a bottle.

lilfarmangel - I believe you also said you would be turning him out. Did you mean on grass?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Ok... so... what should I be feeding him.
!

Baby beef was what my last doggie (that did good) went on. Can't find it any more.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

No matter what you feed, you don't want to change anything quickly.
In all honesty, all he needs is the corn (whole shell corn) and good grass hay. When I start an animal on grain, I give them 1% of their body weight & build that up to a max of 3% of their current wt.
You can easily start supplimenting some of what you're giving him with the WSC & slowly drop the expensive feeds. Unless, like what Iowafarmer said, corn may not be your cheapest feed. Whatever you come up with, he sure doesn't need the heavy protein. It's expensive & at 9 months of age, he doesn't need it. I understand your logic that the protein should make him grow UP instead of OUT. What is your time-frame? When would you like him finished?