Water Line Question

[badaxemoo]

We've got 1500 feet of 1" black 160psi waterline on top of the ground. There is a pretty thick thatch of grass over it.

My questions is:

What air temperature should start getting me concerned about the water in the line freezing?

I suppose the ground temperature factors in. I especially don't want to lose the valves since they are kind of expensive.

 

[msscamp]

Yes, the ground temps would factor in. The grass will provide some protection, but I'm not sure how much. I think I would become concerned if night time temps were below 25-30 degrees - especially if the day was overcast. We've strung garden hoses together to cover that amount of distance when the waterline (buried) to one of our main tanks gave out last winter - might that be an option for you? They are much easier to drain and don't have expensive valves.

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

You live in Wisconsin,that water line will freeze.

 

[msscamp]

You live in Wisconsin,that water line will freeze.

Yes, it will - eventually. The difficult part is telling when. Right now the ground hasn't frozen yet, and is still warm enough to keep the water line from freezing - especially with the thatch of grass to insulate and hold the heat that the ground radiates at night. The pipe itself will also provide a small amount of insulation because of retained heat warming the water inside, but I'm not sure how much because I don't know the size of the tank that this water line services, nor do I know how many head it supplies.

 

[Nowland Farms]

Go to the local rental place and rent one of those trenchers that you ride on and bury the pipe. Around here if you rent by a 24 hour period. If you rent late Friday afternoon, you can keep it all weekend and return at 7am Monday morning and only be charged for 1 days rental.

In Alabama I bury my lines 18'" - 24" deep. Not sure how deep you need to bury where you live.

 

[msscamp]

Not sure how deep you need to bury where you live.

At least 6 feet.

 

[Herefordcross]

We only have to go 30" here a buddy of mine that bought a place in Colorado is working on his pivots now and his water lines have to be 8' deep and I hope he uses plenty of RV antifreeze in those pivots because those puppies aren't cheap.

 

[KenB]

We've got 1500 feet of 1" black 160psi waterline on top of the ground. There is a pretty thick thatch of grass over it.

My questions is:

What air temperature should start getting me concerned about the water in the line freezing?

I suppose the ground temperature factors in. I especially don't want to lose the valves since they are kind of expensive.

It is not only the lowest temperature, but how long the temp. stays below freezing at the point the pipe is at.
I would guess if it stayed at 28 degrees for 3-4 hours it would freeze, and it would be the worst at the ends of the pipe where it is out in the air.
if you could keep a trickle of water running through it will keep it from freezing in all but the most sever temperature.

 

[eric]

Not sure how deep you need to bury where you live.

At least 6 feet.

6 feet deep??? Holy crap, that eliminates using a trencher! I just ran a bunch of sprinkler line and used a small trencher that dug a line about 4 inches wide and about 10"-12" deep. Never had to go any deeper than that. 6 ft deep, now you're getting into backhoe territory.

Give me 106º temps for 90 days over -20º temps anytime.

 

[badaxemoo]

You live in Wisconsin,that water line will freeze.

Really? Are you sure? The pipe is black and with global warming and all, I thought I'd just leave it out there all winter!

Thanks everybody for the input.

I am more or less being lazy. Of course I plan on draining the line, but it is just tempting to leave it out as long as possible, especially since we are supposed to have lows in the forties following Wednesday's projected low of 26.

Burial is expensive up here (yes - 6 feet) and I like the flexibility of keeping it on top of the ground since we are in the early stages of setting up our paddocks.

I don't think I have enough cattle to keep the water running enough to keep it clear and they seem to end their tank visits around 11 p.m. anyway.

Give me 106º temps for 90 days over -20º temps anytime.

And I'll take the opposite - I think I'd melt in Texas. You can always put on more clothes, but there are only so many (especially around moving machinery parts) you can take off.

We had a hot streak this summer and I hated watching the cattle pant. They pretty much shrug off subzero and eat a little more hay.

 

[Saltydawg]

Stop being lazy and bury that line or drain it :lol:

You know it's gonna freeze up, Murphy's Law.

 

[dcara]

How long it takes to freeze will depend mainly on how far below freezeing the air temerature is and whether the water in the pipe is moving. IT WILL FREEZE in one night at an air temperare of about 20F for 8 hours if there is no water movement (and its not wrapped or strip heated). Your best bet is to shut off the source valve and drain the pipe when the temperature is forcasted to be below freezing. FYI, 1500ft of 1in pipe only holds about 61 gal which is cheap compared to the cost of replaceing the pipe.

 

[jgn]

Once they started talking temps of 32 degrees or lower I'd be worrying and getting it drained. You know water freezes at that temp so why try to push your luck. Temps freezing or below drain it.

 

[lukem86]

Its supposed to be in the 20s here tonight.... SE WI.... Im probably going to blow my lines out just to be safe..... maybe wouldnt have to but... just to be safe

the way its been around here this year its probably gonna hit 80 again before thanksgiving..

 

[skyeagle]

I'll say tonight is the first good freeze for you. when I lived
in Michigan we dug down 36" and it work for us.

 

[msscamp]

Not sure how deep you need to bury where you live.

At least 6 feet.

6 feet deep??? Holy crap, that eliminates using a trencher! I just ran a bunch of sprinkler line and used a small trencher that dug a line about 4 inches wide and about 10"-12" deep. Never had to go any deeper than that. 6 ft deep, now you're getting into backhoe territory.

Give me 106º temps for 90 days over -20º temps anytime.

You're right. I believe our waterlines are actually 8'. It gets right cold up here in the winter time. :lol: :lol:

 

[badaxemoo]

Never let it be said that I don't heed the advice from the board.

I drained the line last night and pulled the valves. We only had patchy frost up on the ridge, but I suppose I slept a bit better not dreaming of frozen lines.

I guess summer is over. I hate hauling water and chopping ice.

 

[msscamp]

I hate hauling water and chopping ice.

I can't help you with the hauling water part, but tank heaters will do quite a bit as far as chopping ice.

 

[badaxemoo]

I can't help you with the hauling water part, but tank heaters will do quite a bit as far as chopping ice.

I'd have to have one heck of an extension cord!

I decided to leave them on the far paddock until it gets bitter cold. I want them to graze it short so the frost seeding takes better in the spring and I still have work today on their winter pen.

As soon as I have to cut through more than 2 inches of ice, I'll move them up into the corral next to the barn where I do have a tank heater.

Anyone here have anything positive/negative to say about those waterers with the balls covering the holes? Mirafount is the brand the local farm store carries. I'm thinking about buying one to try to cut down on energy costs. Someone told me if it gets really cold, the balls can freeze in around the edges.

 

[mitchwi]

Anyone here have anything positive/negative to say about those waterers with the balls covering the holes? Mirafount is the brand the local farm store carries. I'm thinking about buying one to try to cut down on energy costs. Someone told me if it gets really cold, the balls can freeze in around the edges.

Our first waterers were the Mirafont, and then some other brand, and we have pulled them all and replaced with Ritchie.

The cows slobber and it drips water on the balls and they freeze...repeatedly. To get away from that, you could pull the balls for the winter, but then you are losing a lot of the workings of that type of tank to keep it from freezing.

Ritchie's may be a bit more expensive to run in the winter, but I wouldn't trade them for any other.

Michele