Vaccinate for Pneumonia ASAP

[BlackBaldyMan]

Just a word of caution and what happened to us this year. I am a member in a club/business where 12 other fellow students and I run a small feedlot (130 head) and create/exicute all levels of operation from vaccine protocals to ordering/building feed diets. We had a calf get pneumonia and due to human error it did NOT get vaccinated as soon as it should have. It began to go down hill very fast so we isolated it into its own pen. Eventually we knew there was something serious and after a vet examination we concluded that because of the prolonged vaccination the lungs adhered to the rib cage, and the calf would eventually die. About 2 months later, it did die (2 weeks ago) and because of the fairly rare case the vet hospital (universitys) had a necropsy and was very interesting to see that the part of the lung that the animal uses most was dead tissue and the part unused was perfectly fine but was very odd to see them adheared to the ribs. So long story short when you see pneumonia vaccinate as soon as possible!

 

[rchile]

I run small stocker/feedlot(250) operation in Florida. I would like compare and contrast operation protocals. Let me know if you don't mind.

RC

 

[Howdyjabo]

We have been tinkering with a new(to us) product. Its too soon to tell for sure but since starting it we have had amazing health.

I would love for someone else to give it a try -- so we can compare results.

Background-- we bring in cattle from area sales in NC.
NC has a very bad reputation for calf heath in feedlots.
So this may not help people from other areas.............

We started adding Multi-Min shots to the workup. It supplies(or replaces shortages) copper, zinc and selenium for 30 days.

We had started using cheleated minerals and saw a positive impact on health-- but the high heads weren't settling down to eat enough feed from the get go and it wasn't helping them.

I wonder with our results--- if NC calves are not coming in deficient to the point of it impacting their immune system.

I had thought of just giving it to odds-- for a comparison to evens. But as good as things are going I hate to rock the boat Although it is expensive if its just a fluke.

 

[rchile]

I've been using multi min in my vac. program on newly arrived cattle. And I have noticed an improvment on the health of these calves.

 

[milkmaid]

Interesting on what happened to the calf...slight correction though, BBM. Vaccinations are a killed, live, or modified live form of a certain bacterin, virus, etc, designed to stimulate the animal's immune system so that when it is exposed to the real virus/etc, that it can mount a prompt response to eliminate the 'intruder'. Pnemonia can be caused by a lot of different 'bugs' - vaccinating a sick animal does nothing - the correct response to a case of pnemonia would be a dose of antibiotic - like helping the animal out by killing off the pathogen for them. As far as antibiotics go, I like Baytril or Nuflor for pnemonia.

 

[K-SHIRES]

Milkmaid - What's your take on using LA-200 for Pneumonia?

 

[rchile]

I prefer Excede or Draxxin($3.15 a cc) on all sick cattle. I use Micotil on all my incoming cattle. I also use Banimine with the antibiotic that I use for sick cattle.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I use Banamine -- but only on calves that top 105
under that the temp is actually helping fight off the infection

I have been using Draxin--
when we started we were getting a 20% failure
Now we are seeing a 30% failure

as much as Draxin costs thats not workable-- and I am beginning to wonder if its not another antibiotic that is gonna loose its effectiveness fast(ie Micotil)-- aas more people start using it.

PS-- there are better markkets out there to buy Draxin-- we are paying $2.88/cc

We did a couple loads this last winter--- 50/50 with Micotil at workup and didn't see an appreciable difference . We still give it to the high heads-- because they are more likely to have problems early on and I don't want to have to pull the idiots.

 

[milkmaid]

Milkmaid - What's your take on using LA-200 for Pneumonia?

It's OK...I don't like it for a severe case though. I don't feel that it works quickly enough, which is self explanatory right there. A mild case of pnemonia I may do something like LA200 or penicillin and see how the calf responds. Depends on the calf - sometimes I adopt a wait-n-see approach, and sometimes I treat immediately. My vet suggested a sulfa/oxytet combination for pnemonia once...I did try it...wasn't really impressed. I just see a much faster response to Baytril. Nuflor's been my second choice. Micotil may work - no experience with the stuff - I refuse to touch it.

 

[K-SHIRES]

MM - Thanks, caught above discussion as wellNuflor v....

 

[preston39]

Milkmaid - What's your take on using LA-200 for Pneumonia?

It's OK...I don't like it for a severe case though. I don't feel that it works quickly enough, which is self explanatory right there. A mild case of pnemonia I may do something like LA200 or penicillin and see how the calf responds. Depends on the calf - sometimes I adopt a wait-n-see approach, and sometimes I treat immediately. My vet suggested a sulfa/oxytet combination for pnemonia once...I did try it...wasn't really impressed. I just see a much faster response to Baytril. Nuflor's been my second choice. Micotil may work - no experience with the stuff - I refuse to touch it.

=====
Help with this. Any case of pneumonia is serious. What do you see/how do you determine that you are dealing with a SEVERE case? I would bet you are thinking of symptoms...but what ones?

 

[milkmaid]

I guess I'm thinking along the lines of "mild" = "deep" semi-frequent cough, where you can obviously tell they're dealing with a respiratory problem, but yet the animal isn't acting under-the-weather. Severe, in my book, is more along the lines of that cough (or not) coupled with a harsh breathing so loud you can hear them on the other side of the barn, and a lethargic attitude. And obviously a calf that has an occasional deep cough but is up, looking OK, and eating, is not something I'd be near as stressed about as a calf that's down, breathing hard (w/a hoarse, rattly sound), and has that glazed over look in his eyes. Make sense?

 

[preston39]

yep. Those are the symptoms I figured you would be referring to. Just wanted to understand. Thanks.
An occasional cough we watch. Anything else we attack agressively. If we feel it is early we use LA 200. Baytril/Nuflor for anything further.(I am sure you would agree ...if you can hear breathing across the barn...a lot of opportunity is gone and chances are not good)