twins

[shorty]

In the past 5 years I have had 5 sets of twins and always lost one of the two , 2 weeks ago tomorrow I had a set of twin bull calves , they are still walking around and the cow seems to be taking good care of them so hopefully they will be okay. I used to hate twins but now I might have changed my mind.

 

[kerley]

Shorty, I have a question about twins. If they are the same sex are they suitable to breed as adults. Good luck with yours. Tom :cboy:

 

[dun]

Shorty, I have a question about twins. If they are the same sex are they suitable to breed as adults. Good luck with yours. Tom :cboy:

Not shorty, but yes there is no problem. There isn;t aporblem with the bull half of a both sex set of twins either

 

[kerley]

Dun, Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that if you have twins, one of each sex that the bull will be normal and the heifer will not be normal ? Thanks, Tom :cboy:

 

[smallrancher]

Yes, the heifer will most often (not always)be a "freemartin". Basically meaning that the testosterone of the bull overpowers the female hormones in the womb, causing them to be underdeveloped.

 

[msscamp]

Dun, Thanks for the reply. Are you saying that if you have twins, one of each sex that the bull will be normal and the heifer will not be normal ? Thanks, Tom :cboy:

I'm not dun, but you are correct. More often than not, heifer/bull twins share the same amniotic sac. When that situation occurs, the male hormones interfere with the females reproductive development and results in a freemartin heifer who is sterile. Sometimes, however, the different sex twins develop in seperate amniotic sacs - in which case the heifer is a normal heifer, and fertile.

 

[fitz]

In the past 5 years I have had 5 sets of twins and always lost one of the two , 2 weeks ago tomorrow I had a set of twin bull calves , they are still walking around and the cow seems to be taking good care of them so hopefully they will be okay. I used to hate twins but now I might have changed my mind.

Hope your luck with the twins continues. At two weeks things should be going your way now. I'm like you, I'm not a big fan of twins. But the particular cow here makes a huge difference.

fitz

 

[BAGTIC]

Here is an article about an Arkansas cow that has given birth to 22 calves including multiple sets of twin and triplets.

More attention needs to be given to developing lines of cattle capable of regularly producing multiple births.




http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Arkansas+ ... 1610661135

 

[angus9259]

My last three sets:

two live heifers
one dead, one live heifer
two dead bulls

I'll pass

 

[jilleroo]

We run a large charolais-based breeder herd in an extensive situation and identify a number of sets of twins each year. Sometimes the twin calves are very similar but often are a totally different colour and type to each other. I've seen them born in the yards and you wouldn't credit that two such totally different calves could come out of the same cow.
Last year however we had the rare thrill of a set of triplets. Born from a very large charolais cow and sired by a charolais bull, the triplets were strong and well despite being small and obviously premature. They had very short hair which their skin tinged pink and their teeth weren't through their gums. However, they were very big on attitude and determination.
The two heifers could just reach up to the cow's udder but the bull could not, and he was the first to be taken back to the homestead. A day or so later, the cow misplaced one of the heifers, a search ensured, she was found and taken home to join the bull. After a week or so, we decided the cow was still looking quite dejected and the heifer calf she had with her was doing the worst of the three, so we took her home also to join the other two who were doing well. Anyway - it was more fun to have all the triplets together to show off and let the cow have a holiday after her big effort! She was slow to pick up but is in magnificent condition now - she is 9 years old and had not been identified as producing multiple calves before.
The triplets received some media coverage and are now weaned and doing well, although smaller than their peers.
As to whether the heifers would be fertile, we haven't decided whether we will be keeping them or not.
We have plenty of photos of the little fellas and when I take the time to find out how to post photos, I will do so.

 

[Keren]

Here is an article about an Arkansas cow that has given birth to 22 calves including multiple sets of twin and triplets.

More attention needs to be given to developing lines of cattle capable of regularly producing multiple births.




http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Arkansas+ ... 1610661135

I'd like to add that more attention needs to be given to developing lines of cattle capable of regularly producing and rearing to weaning weight without supplements or exta attention multiple births.

The article doesnt say whether that cow regularly raised all of her calves. Imo, cows such as jilleroo's (I remember reading about it in the paper - those calves were cute!) arent worth investing in, if they can produce multiples but not raise them. I'm not against multiples however, I worked with a hereford cow once who produced three sets of twins three years running, and always raised them herself without any extra feed, and they were the heaviest and the nicest calves at weaning. That is the sort of cow I like.

 

[dun]

More attention needs to be given to developing lines of cattle capable of regularly producing multiple births.

There has been a lot of work done on it and ABS had a line of bulls called Twinners. No deman so they're gone. There was a herd that had selected for multiple births, I think in either Iowa or on of the Dakotas. Seems he only ran about 35% multiple births.

 

[donnaIL]

Our experience, is a cow who twins every other year:
year 1 dead twins, bull and heifer
year 2 bull calf, who she tries to kill because she is freaked out after having dead babies, raises him
year 3 twins, bull and heifer, cannot decide who she likes and so we raise and bottle feed both
year 4, heifer calf, best calf she ever had if you asked her

my partner and husband doesn't want year 5..twins? like her calves, just want her to take care of them!

Shorty..glad those bulls are doing good..nothing wrong with 2 for 1 if it works... :tiphat: donna

 

[jilleroo]

Whether or not a cow can rear more than one calf depends largely on the season and if she is lucky or unlucky in the calves staying together. A cow here, depending on where she chooses to calve, may have to walk a fair distance to water. One calf may follow her and not the other. A cow rarely goes looking for the missing calf, being satisfied with what she has.
In an extensive grazing situation, quite often the twins we find have survived that initial period. Otherwise, we may find a dead or thirsty calf somewhere and ponder on what happened to it. Once they are bonded together, which seems to take only a few days, the twins move as one. Some cows continually check them, side to side, whilst walking along...one...two...one....two!! Others don't care much at all.... If we have decent grass or the cows are in a handy enough position to supplement feed, we rear some great twins on their mothers, especially pairs of steers. If not, we have to pick up one and bring it back to put on a foster cow or milk replacer.
I would say about only half a percent of our females are identified with twins each year, hardly a major concern. The triplets were naturally bred, no artificial help. We certainly don't expect to see another set in our lifetime. I guess they might be conceived more often than we realise, but maybe abort. Just this cow had enough capacity to accommodate the three little guys perhaps?? A recent visitor from Wyoming, who is a genetic and artificial breeding specialist, said he had never seen triplets and was quite fascinated by them. Will get to those photos one day soon when the kids are around to help me!!

 

[dun]

Whether or not a cow can rear more than one calf depends largely on the season and if she is lucky or unlucky in the calves staying together.

Generally there is less problem with the cow raising them then there is with her succesfully birthing both of them alive.

 

[msscamp]

More attention needs to be given to developing lines of cattle capable of regularly producing multiple births.

The majority of cows are not able to successfully raise even twins to a decent weaning weight, let alone triplets - why would I want to develop cows capable of "regularly producing multiple births"? Twins are a bonus - I'm not going to argue with that, but raising that calf that the cow can't/doesn't have enough milk for is a whole other story. Bottle calves are fine during the winter months, but they are a very major pain in the rear in the summer months.

 

[BAGTIC]

Cows have not always been the way they are now. Domestication has greatly altered them, that is how we got the different breeds. Holsteins were not created that way, they were bred that way.

The point is that if some cows can sustain multiple births and calves then it should be possible to breed strains of cattle that regularly have multiple births, just as dairymen have bred for 30,000 + pounds of milk.

Increasing the fecundity of cattle would do more to increase profitability than all the minor cosmetic improvements we have focusewd on in the past. The largest expense to producing a calf is maintaining the mother. Even if the individual calves mature a hundred pounds or so lighter than usual we would still be far ahead in profit.

In 2006 we had an angus give birth to twins that turned out to be the largest in the herd (30 cows). She never needed any special attention. Ironically she and her 600+ pound calves were killed by a single lightning strike. Shows that there are lots of ways other than birthing difficulties, nursing problems, etc. to lose cattle but we learn to live with them and find solutions. So why, if there will be initial problems developing multiple birthing cows, do people throw up their hands and say no way. Good thing the people who developed treatments for the different diseases didn't take the same stance when they hit a rough spot.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Bagtic, I have two cows that are coming 5 years and they are nearly the best in my bunch. The mom was a heavy bred white face brindle that I have since parted ways with.

These twins turned out to be a good thing for me.

The problem with twins is that one of them will more that likely be breach every time. This is because of the space in the womb and the way they position themselves.

If you are a full time cattleman, this may be less of a problem. I am not. One of those twin cows may drop at 9 a.m. to give birth and if I am at work, I wouldn't know until hours later. I would be leaving the breach calf to chance.

Just my opinion.

 

[TexasBred]

Cows have not always been the way they are now. Domestication has greatly altered them, that is how we got the different breeds. Holsteins were not created that way, they were bred that way.

The point is that if some cows can sustain multiple births and calves then it should be possible to breed strains of cattle that regularly have multiple births, just as dairymen have bred for 30,000 + pounds of milk.

Increasing the fecundity of cattle would do more to increase profitability than all the minor cosmetic improvements we have focusewd on in the past. The largest expense to producing a calf is maintaining the mother. Even if the individual calves mature a hundred pounds or so lighter than usual we would still be far ahead in profit.

In 2006 we had an angus give birth to twins that turned out to be the largest in the herd (30 cows). She never needed any special attention. Ironically she and her 600+ pound calves were killed by a single lightning strike. Shows that there are lots of ways other than birthing difficulties, nursing problems, etc. to lose cattle but we learn to live with them and find solutions. So why, if there will be initial problems developing multiple birthing cows, do people throw up their hands and say no way. Good thing the people who developed treatments for the different diseases didn't take the same stance when they hit a rough spot.

In theory everything above is correct. In reality it's pure baloney. Got a good cow right now that had twins...both survived but after 60 days were very stunted...sold one off and the other one began to grow. Mama looked like a skeleton turning everything into milk on just grass and a few cubes once or twice a week. I'll stick with singles.

 

[dun]

Bagtic: My old mentor was a dairyman and kept excellent records. He wouldn;t keep a twin or a cow that twinned. The reasoning was that the year they twinned they milked far heavier then wqas their norm or expected. Each subsequent year the milked less then they had before twinning.
Also, if a cow will twin and raise them she is way to heavy of a milker to be able to do much good on just pasture. You start slopping grain to her and her calves to make up for it and you'll find yourself in a hole pretty fast.
Besides, according to the heretability stuff, fertility is a very low heritable trait.