TMR ration for stock cows

[Till-Hill]

This ration good enough? I can add some DDG or SBM but I'd rather not. Feedstuffs are pretty cheap if it will work ok. Also what book $ value would you put on these feedstuffs? Hay is complete crap (used CRP hay for value), Rye/Oat/New seeding bunker is 65% moisture, Cornsilage is well we can sell corn for $3.25 so people always said 10 time price corn so $32.50/ton? CSG is 65% too just say...

Cow Cow
Ingredient Basis: As Fed
Lactation Dry
Corn Silage 19.00 10.00
Rye/Oats Silage 8.00 16.00
Hay 20.00 20.00
W&R AS 4 CMP 0.25 0.25
47.25 46.25


1 Dry Matter % 56.54 56.22
2 Crude Protein % 10.40 10.65
14 TDN % 60.85 59.74
9 NEg Mcal/cwt 34.42 32.95
10 NEm Mcal/cwt 60.59 58.95
41 Fat % 2.71 2.67
48 Roughage - 86.17 90.18
19 Calcium % 0.43 0.44
20 Phosphorus % 0.32 0.33
34 Ca Ratio - 1.36 1.36
22 Potassium % 1.98 2.08
23 Sulfur % 0.18 0.18
21 Salt, Added % 0.37 0.38
25 Zinc ppm 33.69 34.61
27 Copper ppm 11.23 11.54
16 Vit A IU/lb 9312.17 9320.74
17 Vit D IU/lb 140.37 144.22
18 Vit E IU/lb 1.40 1.44

 

[TexasBred]

The only question I have is if you think this will be enough dry matter per cow per day for your climate? Otherwise the mix looks fine to me. Just kick up the total amount fed a bit.

 

[Till-Hill]

I will have a bale in feeder too so they are never out of feed in this wonderfull -20 weather coming next few days. This group is due 3/14-4/14 and in good shape. Way I had priced it out was around $1/hd/day. Can't beat that if they do good on it.

Thanks TB

 

[TexasBred]

I will have a bale in feeder too so they are never out of feed in this wonderfull -20 weather coming next few days. This group is due 3/14-4/14 and in good shape. Way I had priced it out was around $1/hd/day. Can't beat that if they do good on it.

Thanks TB

Keep'em warm and they'll do you proud. ;-)

 

[bmoore87]

Looks good I think the lower ration came out to roughly mid 20s on dry matter so depending on your cow size you are probably good just adjust if condition changes and feed more after they calve. On really cold days I add 10 -20 percent to the ration to keep them warm so they are not using as much condition to keep body heat.

As far as value we have our corn silage at $40 probably a little high but I follow the 10 times rule like you, then add on chopping and bagging cost. Got ryelage ate $35 a ton and cornstalks at $50. Not so good at hay but guessing around 80-100.

Your right on the cost and the extra energy help the older girls keep looking go through the winter.

 

[Till-Hill]

I mixed it and put in feeder wagon. They sorted thru hay pretty good but we are at 48 hours and they haven't touched bale feeder yet. Decent bale in there. If they were hungry sure think they would eat it.

They have a bedded shed to get into so they don't have it to rough. Thanks for the help guys. I will watch them and see how they do compared to other 2 groups without tmr.

 

[Waterway65]

Till Hill I used times tmrs for years as a dairyman with success. Using a good eye for change in their body condition and you should do great. I would like to know the ration balancing souftwAre you are using? I have been looking for a good user friendly software to do what you are trying to do.

 

[Till-Hill]

Waterway, same here dairy herdsman by day beef cow farmer when time. Rations run by my Purina rep. Long as we buy their mineral their formulate rations. Cheap for me to since boss has feed samples already taken!

 

[bmoore87]

Sounds like they are getting plenty if not going after the hay at all. Mine will usually clean the bunk and start on the hay. You could probably reduce some but at around $1 a day it doesn't hurt to put something weight on them.

 

[TexasBred]

I wouldn't reduce the amount of the "good feed" that they really need in order to encourage them to eat the "pure crap" hay that is there "just in case". That is the last thing you want them to eat and by choice not necessity.

 

[dirtfarmer1000]

The program I use and adjust my TMR with for my winter feeding programs for pre and post lactating cow, heifers bulls etc is called Cowbytes and it is available from Alberta agriculture, http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... agdex12486. The program is totally adjustable for specific feeds, costs, animal types and weather conditions. This is my feeding bible for my winter feeding and growing programs.

 

[TexasBred]

The program I use and adjust my TMR with for my winter feeding programs for pre and post lactating cow, heifers bulls etc is called Cowbytes and it is available from Alberta agriculture, http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... agdex12486. The program is totally adjustable for specific feeds, costs, animal types and weather conditions. This is my feeding bible for my winter feeding and growing programs.

Can you set the parameters for the various nutrient densities and then let the program calculate the amount of each ingredient to use based on these densities as well as costs?

 

[dirtfarmer1000]

The program I use and adjust my TMR with for my winter feeding programs for pre and post lactating cow, heifers bulls etc is called Cowbytes and it is available from Alberta agriculture, http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... agdex12486. The program is totally adjustable for specific feeds, costs, animal types and weather conditions. This is my feeding bible for my winter feeding and growing programs.

Can you set the parameters for the various nutrient densities and then let the program calculate the amount of each ingredient to use based on these densities as well as costs?

I am not sure what you mean by densities, but all the feed analysis's can be changed based upon feed tests, or you can use the programs average on specific feeds. Everything is customizable to specific requirements.

 

[TexasBred]

I am not sure what you mean by densities, but all the feed analysis's can be changed based upon feed tests, or you can use the programs average on specific feeds. Everything is customizable to specific requirements.

This is why I discourage people from trying to balance their own ration or build their own feed. They know a bit about Protein, fat and fiber but little else. Various feed ingredients have over 100 "densities" represented by various energy levels, digestion levels, vitamin and mineral levels and many others. You need to know what recommended levels are then "customize" as you put it the various levels for the specific feed being formulated, know what it represents and what the level should be for a particular situation.

 

[dirtfarmer1000]

I am not sure what you mean by densities, but all the feed analysis's can be changed based upon feed tests, or you can use the programs average on specific feeds. Everything is customizable to specific requirements.

This is why I discourage people from trying to balance their own ration or build their own feed. They know a bit about Protein, fat and fiber but little else. Various feed ingredients have over 100 "densities" represented by various energy levels, digestion levels, vitamin and mineral levels and many others. You need to know what recommended levels are then "customize" as you put it the various levels for the specific feed being formulated, know what it represents and what the level should be for a particular situation.

With cowbytes the recommended levels are built into the program, you plug in your feed you wish to use and pounds you are feeding and it tells you if your animals are getting what they need. If you wish to use feed analysis data, you can plug it in place of the standardized feed analysis. Discouragement or not, I am no nutritionist, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I can guarantee you I am farther ahead in feeding my animals a proper balanced diet than 100 percent of the operators out there without a feed program.

 

[TexasBred]

Discouragement or not, I am no nutritionist, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I can guarantee you I am farther ahead in feeding my animals a proper balanced diet than 100 percent of the operators out there without a feed program.

That's usually the problem. People buy these little inexpensive simple programs and think they are making things better. Best wishes to you . :tiphat:

 

[dirtfarmer1000]

Discouragement or not, I am no nutritionist, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I can guarantee you I am farther ahead in feeding my animals a proper balanced diet than 100 percent of the operators out there without a feed program.

That's usually the problem. People buy these little inexpensive simple programs and think they are making things better. Best wishes to you . :tiphat:

Before you make your uneducated, uninformed comments, why don't you look at the program. The program when it came out was not inexpensive. It cost me 400 bucks 15 years ago. Nor is it simple, the program you are talking about was developed by Alberta Agriculture and is used by nutritionists in Alberta Agriculture to create rations for ranchers such as myself. I was not interested in traveling 45 miles every time I wanted to change my ration so I purchased it. As well it is used by 90 percent of the nutritionists in the province. Best wishes to you in your closeminded little world!!! Mentor my a$$!!!!

 

[TexasBred]

Discouragement or not, I am no nutritionist, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I can guarantee you I am farther ahead in feeding my animals a proper balanced diet than 100 percent of the operators out there without a feed program.

That's usually the problem. People buy these little inexpensive simple programs and think they are making things better. Best wishes to you . :tiphat:

Before you make your uneducated, uninformed comments, why don't you look at the program. The program when it came out was not inexpensive. It cost me 400 bucks 15 years ago. Nor is it simple, the program you are talking about was developed by Alberta Agriculture and is used by nutritionists in Alberta Agriculture to create rations for ranchers such as myself. I was not interested in traveling 45 miles every time I wanted to change my ration so I purchased it. As well it is used by 90 percent of the nutritionists in the province. Best wishes to you in your closeminded little world!!! Mentor my a$$!!!!

Dam dirtfarmer didn't mean to pi$$ you off...just pointing out what you yourself pointed out....these are used by NUTRITIONIST. A bit different than me and you grabbing up one and thinking we can punch in numbers and get perfect scientific results. But have fun at it anyway. ;-) BTW...a mentor is only as good as his students. In your case it seems I don't have much to work with. :mrgreen:

 

[Waterway65]

I used to balance my own rations years ago for my dairy herd. With good software it's really not rocket science. It gives you solid facts to back what you are seeing In your herd and can catch problems much sooner. Mel

 

[TexasBred]

I used to balance my own rations years ago for my dairy herd. With good software it's really not rocket science. It gives you solid facts to back what you are seeing In your herd and can catch problems much sooner. Mel

Actually it is science. Must more than just giving someone a crayola and thinking they can paint a Picasso. You can formulate a ration but seldom if ever will it be truly balanced unless you know the "science" behind the values and what they do. A truly well balanced ration will eliminate problems. What ration balancing program did you use?