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TMR $ question

mncowboy

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Just curious, maybe more so for those in the northern colder parts, what's an "average" winter cow ration typically run? Can you feed a cow ration cheaper then say $50 a ton? $60? If you can winter bred cows on $60 a ton baleage, can you feed them cheaper using a TMR? I've toyed with the idea of purchasing a used TMR mixer and so far the justification I'd use for it would be we're 20 minutes from an ethanol plant and 45 from a sugar beet plant and typically with straw and corn stover/salks relatively easy to purchase. I've kept myself from committing to the idea because of the additional maintenance, additional time ect. but I still find myself thinking, others have it hauled in from great distances and can pencil it, not to mention the added benefit to back grounding prior to sale day ect. maybe I'm missing an opportunity.
 

brownvet

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we are currently using a cow ration with shredded beets, corn gluten and ground cornstalks + mineral supplement.
is 58% DM with Ne 65 Mcal/lb and it costs $54 ton of Dry matter.
 

TexasBred

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brownvet":af2stdxj said:
we are currently using a cow ration with shredded beets, corn gluten and ground cornstalks + mineral supplement.
is 58% DM with Ne 65 Mcal/lb and it costs $54 ton of Dry matter.

Can you give us the rest of the nutrient profile on that mix. Dry matter doesn't tell much as everything is fed on an as fed basis which includes moisture. And how much of each do you put into the mix.

I can't ever see a mixer wagon and TMR working for anything but dairies, feed lots and stocker operations. Just too much money tied up in equipment and commodities to justify it.
 

ddd75

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if you have enough cattle, and the right places to buy.. i think it'd work.


i called the local ethanol plant. they want 80/ton for DDG's.. i think its kinda pricey?
 

1wlimo

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TMR can reduce your ration cost. Some times quite significantly.

However there are much increased machine costs. You need to run the TMR and a loader at the same time, and when the TMR break it is a must fix now.

Machine costs will depend on your operation, but u will need a commercial size here plus in most case's
 

Stocker Steve

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In the dairy world - - they would calculate how many cows you need to make it work. Used to be 100 to 150 minimum.
I think it makes sense for beef cows if you are in dirt farming country and can get a deal on corn stalks, or corn silage.
The only mid sized beef guy I know who uses one feeds both his cows and his weaned calves using a corn silage base.
 

bmoore87

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Main thing word be if you have access to by products,corn silage, cornstalks or low quality grinding hay for a good price.

I think people spend a lot more on other things for their farm that can have less payoff. You could get a decent old reel mixer for under 5k or a discharge wagon for around a grand. Would need probably an 80+ HP tractor for mixing we used an IH 806 a lot of times and skidloader to load with. You could probably get it all for under 25k and inside out tractor tires make good cow feeders.


Run the numbers on what you can get and see how long it takes to payoff with the cheaper feed.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.
 

TexasBred

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midTN_Brangusman":1yzg4sgk said:
I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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TexasBred":2t2znye1 said:
midTN_Brangusman":2t2znye1 said:
I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.

That's a very good point TB, I guess its not very feasible for smaller operations. We already had all the equipment just had to buy some bunks.
 

shaz

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midTN_Brangusman":q0eamvvb said:
I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.

Do you make the corn silage?
 

TexasBred

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midTN_Brangusman":2vz6hokz said:
TexasBred":2vz6hokz said:
midTN_Brangusman":2vz6hokz said:
I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.

That's a very good point TB, I guess its not very feasible for smaller operations. We already had all the equipment just had to buy some bunks.
Never seen one in operation that didn't make the owner money. Great piece of equipment and really very simple piece of equipment. Sounds like you got a good buy Brangus.
 

Stocker Steve

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mncowboy":e0uvk3be said:
Just curious, maybe more so for those in the northern colder parts, what's an "average" winter cow ration typically run? Can you feed a cow ration cheaper then say $50 a ton?

approximately $47.67 per ton
 

jedstivers

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ddd75":2c6uck25 said:
if you have enough cattle, and the right places to buy.. i think it'd work.


i called the local ethanol plant. they want 80/ton for DDG's.. i think its kinda pricey?
Wish I could get it that cheap. Time I get freight on it I'm 170.
I've been buying damage gluten and ddg for less though but still a lot more than 80.
 

Atimm693

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TexasBred":z4jjeije said:
midTN_Brangusman":z4jjeije said:
I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.

They won't grind a whole bale efficiently. Takes 30-45 minutes for a 1000 lb bale and it makes a mess in the process. A neighbor has the same setup on his truck and had the same trouble.

Hay that is not rolled is supposedly better, but having it pre-ground is the better option. There are outfits that will come around and do it by the bale or by the hour.

We will be trying out a new baler this spring that will pre-cut the hay and pack it into a bale. It's supposed to just fall apart as soon as you cut the strings.
 

TexasBred

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Atimm693":60xvwj0r said:
TexasBred":60xvwj0r said:
midTN_Brangusman":60xvwj0r said:
I recently bought a vertical TMR mixer. We feed Rye grass hay and corn silage. I had toyed with the idea for some time now but couldn't justify the cost. Ran across one at a farm sale just a few years old and got it for about half a new one cost. Its only a couple years old and been kept in a shed and lightly used. Probably one of the most productive purchases I have made for my cattle.
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.

They won't grind a whole bale efficiently. Takes 30-45 minutes for a 1000 lb bale and it makes a mess in the process. A neighbor has the same setup on his truck and had the same trouble.

Hay that is not rolled is supposedly better, but having it pre-ground is the better option. There are outfits that will come around and do it by the bale or by the hour.

We will be trying out a new baler this spring that will pre-cut the hay and pack it into a bale. It's supposed to just fall apart as soon as you cut the strings.
All I can say is you must have not had a REAL vertical mixer which is designed to grind hay...lots of hay. A good one will grind up a 1500 lb. round bale before you can turn around and there is zero mess. It's all still inside the mixer. Maybe you're thinking about the old tub grinders which simply would grind up hay (preferably alfalfa) and blow it into a pile or a bay of a commodity barn.


https://www.google.com/search?q=picture ... ZOgMBYM%3A
 

jedstivers

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TexasBred":84o5w472 said:
Atimm693":84o5w472 said:
TexasBred":84o5w472 said:
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.

They won't grind a whole bale efficiently. Takes 30-45 minutes for a 1000 lb bale and it makes a mess in the process. A neighbor has the same setup on his truck and had the same trouble.

Hay that is not rolled is supposedly better, but having it pre-ground is the better option. There are outfits that will come around and do it by the bale or by the hour.

We will be trying out a new baler this spring that will pre-cut the hay and pack it into a bale. It's supposed to just fall apart as soon as you cut the strings.
All I can say is you must have not had a REAL vertical mixer which is designed to grind hay...lots of hay. A good one will grind up a 1500 lb. round bale before you can turn around and there is zero mess. It's all still inside the mixer. Maybe you're thinking about the old tub grinders which simply would grind up hay (preferably alfalfa) and blow it into a pile or a bay of a commodity barn.


https://www.google.com/search?q=picture ... ZOgMBYM%3A
TB is right. I have a vertical tmr. It's a bad boy.
 

Atimm693

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TexasBred":1ex61z64 said:
Atimm693":1ex61z64 said:
TexasBred":1ex61z64 said:
Vertical mixers are a huge improvement over the old horizontals which could do little but mix. Good to be able to grind large bales of hay and mix the commodities with it. They give an excellent mix as well. Again though you have to have a minimum of two tractors, one large one dedicated to the wagon and another with FIL for loading commodities. Sometimes a third to have one with a hay spear. And then feed bunks. Most smaller operators can't tie up this much capital.

They won't grind a whole bale efficiently. Takes 30-45 minutes for a 1000 lb bale and it makes a mess in the process. A neighbor has the same setup on his truck and had the same trouble.

Hay that is not rolled is supposedly better, but having it pre-ground is the better option. There are outfits that will come around and do it by the bale or by the hour.

We will be trying out a new baler this spring that will pre-cut the hay and pack it into a bale. It's supposed to just fall apart as soon as you cut the strings.
All I can say is you must have not had a REAL vertical mixer which is designed to grind hay...lots of hay. A good one will grind up a 1500 lb. round bale before you can turn around and there is zero mess. It's all still inside the mixer. Maybe you're thinking about the old tub grinders which simply would grind up hay (preferably alfalfa) and blow it into a pile or a bay of a commodity barn.


https://www.google.com/search?q=picture ... ZOgMBYM%3A

It's a Luck Now 2350. Only a few years old.

It takes a good 30 minutes to chew up a fescue bale, with some of it boiling over in the process.

Of course that's just our experience with the machine. I'm sure the bigger machines with two rotors make short work out of a bale.
 

bmoore87

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The ones we have owned and used Kuhn knight & patz (500 cubic foot range) somewhere in between what your both saying while they don't take 30 minutes to grind it does take longer than if using tub ground hay in as good reel mixer especially the new helix reels and doesn't grind the bale before you can turn around unless extremely dry alfalfa. Tougher made hay can take longer and the hay can boil over but we put hay retention kits on them and it helps keep it in and grind. I like doing it for calves but we stopped doing it for the cows. Its not efficient or as quick to grind that much hay so we set out bales based on weight for so many days and fill out any extra hay we need In the mixer with silage, ryelage corn and byproducts. It takes less time and saves on knives and wear.

Like I said tire feeders are $20-30 and work just as good as feed bunks. Used verticals can be had for under 10k that would work for a smaller herd.
 
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