Theoretical question: fert vs feed

[Anonymous]

With fert and feed prices being so high where would you spend your money to get the most bang for your buck if you only could choose one. Both are short lived, both are expensive now, so which one would be the most beneficial overall. I know that milkers vs pairs vs feeders vs stockers would play their roles. But across the board?
And....... Go

 

[regolith]

Short answer - I simply don't have the experience with the fertiliser/seed input side of things to know yet, as that is usually the farm owner's responsibility and this is the first year I've made the fertiliser decisions (it's still his responsibility but we won't go there).

I figure my most cost effective way forward on this farm is seed and fertiliser rather than buying in feed.
That said. I'm a) in an excellent grass growing climate (so can expect good responses); b)dealing with low fertility; run out pastures (so can expect good responses); and c) very restricted in the feed I can economically buy in due to local prices and the farm's organic status.

In the meantime, I have had to buy in more than twice the amount of feed I budgeted for to keep the stocking rate high enough to maintain a viable business. So to start with the feed cost is going to be there anyway.

 

[dun]

Fertilizer. You have a lot more options on what to use and it will provide a longer return then just dumping feed into them.

 

[Isomade]

Fertilizer. You have a lot more options on what to use and it will provide a longer return then just dumping feed into them.

Absolutely!

 

[ANAZAZI]

Fertilizer. You have a lot more options on what to use and it will provide a longer return then just dumping feed into them.

Absolutely!

Thirding that!

 

[Dave]

The answer is, it depends. Dollars spent on fertilizer will give you more bang for your buck. But if you need feed now, you can't fertilize and wait for the feed to grow. And with fertilizer the law of demenishing return applies. Example, if there is no P in your soil the first 10 pounds will have amazing results but if there is already plenty of P in the soil you wont notice any improvement by adding 10 pounds.

 

[shaz]

The answer is, it depends. Dollars spent on fertilizer will give you more bang for your buck. But if you need feed now, you can't fertilize and wait for the feed to grow. And with fertilizer the law of demenishing return applies. Example, if there is no P in your soil the first 10 pounds will have amazing results but if there is already plenty of P in the soil you wont notice any improvement by adding 10 pounds.

I agree,
My Dad taught me that you could just through nitrogen at any lack of grass problem. He never had the topsoil troubles I do

 

[hillsdown]

You can also fertilize all you want, but without the cooperation of mother nature, it doesn't mean anything will grow.

BALANCE is the key to surviving, don't put all your eggs in one basket and be prepared for a "non" rainy day . ;-)

 

[backhoeboogie]

Fertilizer without a doubt.

 

[bigbull338]

if i had to choose where to spend my money on feed or fert,id choose feed.i did the figures on mixing 100lbs of wheat with 200lbs of fert on 50acs.an i decided real quick where the money would be best spent on feed.the total cost was $4300 or $43 an ac.well that would buy 15 tons of feed,wich would feed 105 days.

 

[James T]

Fertilizer. You have a lot more options on what to use and it will provide a longer return then just dumping feed into them.

Ditto that................maybe. 'Maybe', because, if you plan on haying it all then, your hauling the fertilizer out the gate and have to replace it. This is fine as long as your your fertilizer replacement cost is built into the price of the bales produced. If your going to just graze what you fertilize then, your coming out way ahead because the the cattle don't walk away with much. Of course I'm assuming your planning for the Spring. It won't help you much now except for at least one element of fertilizer that takes a bit longer to run deep. Which one is that?

 

[TexasBred]

Potash (Potassium)

 

[Sean M]

Short answer - I simply don't have the experience with the fertiliser/seed input side of things to know yet, as that is usually the farm owner's responsibility and this is the first year I've made the fertiliser decisions (it's still his responsibility but we won't go there).

I figure my most cost effective way forward on this farm is seed and fertiliser rather than buying in feed.
That said. I'm a) in an excellent grass growing climate (so can expect good responses); b)dealing with low fertility; run out pastures (so can expect good responses); and c) very restricted in the feed I can economically buy in due to local prices and the farm's organic status.

In the meantime, I have had to buy in more than twice the amount of feed I budgeted for to keep the stocking rate high enough to maintain a viable business. So to start with the feed cost is going to be there anyway.

Can you only use rock phosphate Reg? I'd imagine chicken litter etc would have to come from an organic farm. And how do you control worms?

 

[James T]

Potash (Potassium)

O.k.. "When soluble phosphate is added to a soil, its solubility first declines very rapidly. This is followed by a more gradual decrease in solution concentrations which can continue for weeks."

So, let's assume that he sent in his soil sample with a check from $5-$10, stating what kind of grass he was growing and what he was using it for, and they responded that he needed x lbs per acre of of Potassium. Given that Potassium is slow to get on down there (plus other issues we won't bring up now), what's the fastest and best way to get it to the proper usable depth by Spring?

 

[Massey135]

if i had to choose where to spend my money on feed or fert,id choose feed.i did the figures on mixing 100lbs of wheat with 200lbs of fert on 50acs.an i decided real quick where the money would be best spent on feed.the total cost was $4300 or $43 an ac.well that would buy 15 tons of feed,wich would feed 105 days.

100lbs ammonium nitrate would have done the trick.

How many cows are you talking 15 tons 105 days?

 

[Stocker Steve]

With fert and feed prices being so high where would you spend your money to get the most bang for your buck if you only could choose one.

Depends on prices and what is limiting in your soil. I buy in a lot of cheap hay but getting the nutrients in the right place without damaging sod is a big challenge. Right now I have 150 bales being grazed on a 6 acre paddock.

For an aggressive and sustainable system I would say neither - - you would be better off purchasing manure to get OG and soil life up, and keep it up. I would pencil out lime and poultry manure for a couple years. Than fine tune with commercial fertilizer.

 

[hillrancher]

Remember if you are a cattle rancher you first have to be a grass farmer. If the gorund is productive as should. You do not have to buy as much mineral and other medical. You do not have to spend as much time hauling in hay and feed and hay, feed back out. Yes mother nature holds the big hand in where you spend your money and when. Manage what you have with the best of your abality is my answer.

 

[thendrix]

Fertilizer and seed. Grass grows back, feed doesn't

 

[regolith]

Short answer - I simply don't have the experience with the fertiliser/seed input side of things to know yet, as that is usually the farm owner's responsibility and this is the first year I've made the fertiliser decisions (it's still his responsibility but we won't go there).

I figure my most cost effective way forward on this farm is seed and fertiliser rather than buying in feed.
That said. I'm a) in an excellent grass growing climate (so can expect good responses); b)dealing with low fertility; run out pastures (so can expect good responses); and c) very restricted in the feed I can economically buy in due to local prices and the farm's organic status.

In the meantime, I have had to buy in more than twice the amount of feed I budgeted for to keep the stocking rate high enough to maintain a viable business. So to start with the feed cost is going to be there anyway.

Can you only use rock phosphate Reg? I'd imagine chicken litter etc would have to come from an organic farm. And how do you control worms?

I opted to use chicken litter and lime, on the flat/dry portion of the farm that I can't irrigate with the dairy shed effluent. The chicken litter is certified organic.
RPR (reactive rock phosphate) is what I was recommended to use and I was informed by about three or four independent people that it would take 2 - 3 years to show a response. I don't have that sort of time and money.
There's a few other alternatives on the market - viaphos is guano based. I tried a volcanic rock/mineral/fishmeal blend on a few hectares and so far not very impressed by the results.
If you mean stomach worms (can't imagine you'd be worried about increasing numbers of earthworms), then I drench just like everyone else does. I'm not supplying organic product from the farm and the certifier told me that I could drench without quarantining the stock for that reason. If I was converting the herd to supply organic milk then any treated animal would have to be held in a quarantine paddock.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Potash (Potassium)

O.k.. "When soluble phosphate is added to a soil, its solubility first declines very rapidly. This is followed by a more gradual decrease in solution concentrations which can continue for weeks."

So, let's assume that he sent in his soil sample with a check from $5-$10, stating what kind of grass he was growing and what he was using it for, and they responded that he needed x lbs per acre of of Potassium. Given that Potassium is slow to get on down there (plus other issues we won't bring up now), what's the fastest and best way to get it to the proper usable depth by Spring?

Aerator. But it is going to depend on your grass. For coastal aeration is the best but you don't want to overdo it either. Timing it so that the fertilizer gets in those open grooves followed by an immediate rain is the absolute best. Easier to do on small acreage in the spring.