The looming deficit

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Frankie

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Am I the only person concerned about this?

From Yahoo.com

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061028/ap_ ... e_bankrupt

"AUSTIN, Texas - David M. Walker sure talks like he's running for office. "This is about the future of our country, our kids and grandkids," the comptroller general of the United States warns a packed hall at Austin's historic Driskill Hotel. "We the people have to rise up to make sure things get changed."
But Walker doesn't want, or need, your vote this November. He already has a job as head of the Government Accountability Office, an investigative arm of Congress that audits and evaluates the performance of the federal government.
Basically, that makes Walker the nation's accountant-in-chief. And the accountant-in-chief's professional opinion is that the American public needs to tell Washington it's time to steer the nation off the path to financial ruin.
From the hustings and the airwaves this campaign season, America's political class can be heard debating Capitol Hill sex scandals, the wisdom of the war in Iraq and which party is tougher on terror. Democrats and Republicans talk of cutting taxes to make life easier for the American people.

What they don't talk about is a dirty little secret everyone in Washington knows, or at least should. The vast majority of economists and budget analysts agree: The ship of state is on a disastrous course, and will founder on the reefs of economic disaster if nothing is done to correct it.

There's a good reason politicians don't like to talk about the nation's long-term fiscal prospects. The subject is short on political theatrics and long on complicated economics, scary graphs and very big numbers. It reveals serious problems and offers no easy solutions. Anybody who wanted to deal with it seriously would have to talk about raising taxes and cutting benefits, nasty nostrums that might doom any candidate who prescribed them.

"There's no sexiness to it," laments Leita Hart-Fanta, an accountant who has just heard Walker's pitch. She suggests recruiting a trusted celebrity — maybe Oprah — to sell fiscal responsibility to the American people.

Walker doesn't want to make balancing the federal government's books sexy — he just wants to make it politically palatable. He has committed to touring the nation through the 2008 elections, talking to anybody who will listen about the fiscal black hole Washington has dug itself, the "demographic tsunami" that will come when the baby boom generation begins retiring and the recklessness of borrowing money from foreign lenders to pay for the operation of the U.S. government.

"He can speak forthrightly and independently because his job is not in jeopardy if he tells the truth," said Isabel V. Sawhill, a senior fellow in economic studies at the Brookings Institution.

Walker can talk in public about the nation's impending fiscal crisis because he has one of the most secure jobs in Washington. As comptroller general of the United States — basically, the government's chief accountant — he is serving a 15-year term that runs through 2013.

This year Walker has spoken to the Union League Club of Chicago and the Rotary Club of Atlanta, the Sons of the American Revolution and the World Future Society. But the backbone of his campaign has been the Fiscal Wake-up Tour, a traveling roadshow of economists and budget analysts who share Walker's concern for the nation's budgetary future.

"You can't solve a problem until the majority of the people believe you have a problem that needs to be solved," Walker says.

Polls suggest that Americans have only a vague sense of their government's long-term fiscal prospects. When pollsters ask Americans to name the most important problem facing America today — as a CBS News/New York Times poll of 1,131 Americans did in September — issues such as the war in Iraq, terrorism, jobs and the economy are most frequently mentioned. The deficit doesn't even crack the top 10.

Yet on the rare occasions that pollsters ask directly about the deficit, at least some people appear to recognize it as a problem. In a survey of 807 Americans last year by the Pew Center for the People and the Press, 42 percent of respondents said reducing the deficit should be a top priority; another 38 percent said it was important but a lower priority.

So the majority of the public appears to agree with Walker that the deficit is a serious problem, but only when they're made to think about it. Walker's challenge is to get people not just to think about it, but to pressure politicians to make the hard choices that are needed to keep the situation from spiraling out of control.

To show that the looming fiscal crisis is not a partisan issue, he brings along economists and budget analysts from across the political spectrum. In Austin, he's accompanied by Diane Lim Rogers, a liberal economist from the Brookings Institution, and Alison Acosta Fraser, director of the Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.

"We all agree on what the choices are and what the numbers are," Fraser says.

Their basic message is this: If the United States government conducts business as usual over the next few decades, a national debt that is already $8.5 trillion could reach $46 trillion or more, adjusted for inflation. That's almost as much as the total net worth of every person in America — Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and those Google guys included.

A hole that big could paralyze the U.S. economy; according to some projections, just the interest payments on a debt that big would be as much as all the taxes the government collects today.

And every year that nothing is done about it, Walker says, the problem grows by $2 trillion to $3 trillion.

People who remember Ross Perot's rants in the 1992 presidential election may think of the federal debt as a problem of the past. But it never really went away after Perot made it an issue, it only took a breather. The federal government actually produced a surplus for a few years during the 1990s, thanks to a booming economy and fiscal restraint imposed by laws that were passed early in the decade. And though the federal debt has grown in dollar terms since 2001, it hasn't grown dramatically relative to the size of the economy.
But that's about to change, thanks to the country's three big entitlement programs — Social Security, Medicaid and especially Medicare. Medicaid and Medicare have grown progressively more expensive as the cost of health care has dramatically outpaced inflation over the past 30 years, a trend that is expected to continue for at least another decade or two.
And with the first baby boomers becoming eligible for Social Security in 2008 and for Medicare in 2011, the expenses of those two programs are about to increase dramatically due to demographic pressures. People are also living longer, which makes any program that provides benefits to retirees more expensive.
Medicare already costs four times as much as it did in 1970, measured as a percentage of the nation's gross domestic product. It currently comprises 13 percent of federal spending; by 2030, the Congressional Budget Office projects it will consume nearly a quarter of the budget.
Economists Jagadeesh Gokhale of the American Enterprise Institute and Kent Smetters of the University of Pennsylvania have an even scarier way of looking at Medicare. Their method calculates the program's long-term fiscal shortfall — the annual difference between its dedicated revenues and costs — over time.
By 2030 they calculate Medicare will be about $5 trillion in the hole, measured in 2004 dollars. By 2080, the fiscal imbalance will have risen to $25 trillion. And when you project the gap out to an infinite time horizon, it reaches $60 trillion.
Medicare so dominates the nation's fiscal future that some economists believe health care reform, rather than budget measures, is the best way to attack the problem.
"Obviously health care is a mess," says Dean Baker, a liberal economist at the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a Washington think tank. "No one's been willing to touch it, but that's what I see as front and center."
Social Security is a much less serious problem. The program currently pays for itself with a 12.4 percent payroll tax, and even produces a surplus that the government raids every year to pay other bills. But Social Security will begin to run deficits during the next century, and ultimately would need an infusion of $8 trillion if the government planned to keep its promises to every beneficiary.
Calculations by Boston University economist Lawrence Kotlikoff indicate that closing those gaps — $8 trillion for Social Security, many times that for Medicare — and paying off the existing deficit would require either an immediate doubling of personal and corporate income taxes, a two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits, or some combination of the two.
Why is America so fiscally unprepared for the next century? Like many of its citizens, the United States has spent the last few years racking up debt instead of saving for the future. Foreign lenders — primarily the central banks of China, Japan and other big U.S. trading partners — have been eager to lend the government money at low interest rates, making the current $8.5-trillion deficit about as painful as a big balance on a zero-percent credit card.
In her part of the fiscal wake-up tour presentation, Rogers tries to explain why that's a bad thing. For one thing, even when rates are low a bigger deficit means a greater portion of each tax dollar goes to interest payments rather than useful programs. And because foreigners now hold so much of the federal government's debt, those interest payments increasingly go overseas rather than to U.S. investors.
More serious is the possibility that foreign lenders might lose their enthusiasm for lending money to the United States. Because treasury bills are sold at auction, that would mean paying higher interest rates in the future. And it wouldn't just be the government's problem. All interest rates would rise, making mortgages, car payments and student loans costlier, too.
A modest rise in interest rates wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, Rogers said. America's consumers have as much of a borrowing problem as their government does, so higher rates could moderate overconsumption and encourage consumer saving. But a big jump in interest rates could cause economic catastrophe. Some economists even predict the government would resort to printing money to pay off its debt, a risky strategy that could lead to runaway inflation.
Macroeconomic meltdown is probably preventable, says Anjan Thakor, a professor of finance at Washington University in St. Louis. But to keep it at bay, he said, the government is essentially going to have to renegotiate some of the promises it has made to its citizens, probably by some combination of tax increases and benefit cuts.
But there's no way to avoid what Rogers considers the worst result of racking up a big deficit — the outrage of making our children and grandchildren repay the debts of their elders.
"It's an unfair burden for future generations," she says.
You'd think young people would be riled up over this issue, since they're the ones who will foot the bill when they're out in the working world. But students take more interest in issues like the Iraq war and gay marriage than the federal government's finances, says Emma Vernon, a member of the University of Texas Young Democrats.
"It's not something that can fire people up," she says.
The current political climate doesn't help. Washington tends to keep its fiscal house in better order when one party controls Congress and the other is in the White House, says Sawhill.
"It's kind of a paradoxical result. Your commonsense logic would tell you if one party is in control of everything they should be able to take action," Sawhill says.
But the last six years of Republican rule have produced tax cuts, record spending increases and a Medicare prescription drug plan that has been widely criticized as fiscally unsound. When President Clinton faced a Republican Congress during the 1990s, spending limits and other legislative tools helped produce a surplus.
So maybe a solution is at hand.
"We're likely to have at least partially divided government again," Sawhill said, referring to predictions that the Democrats will capture the House, and possibly the Senate, in next month's elections.
But Walker isn't optimistic that the government will be able to tackle its fiscal challenges so soon.
"Realistically what we hope to accomplish through the fiscal wake-up tour is ensure that any serious candidate for the presidency in 2008 will be forced to deal with the issue," he says. "The best we're going to get in the next couple of years is to slow the bleeding."
 
Thanks for that, Frankie...good article, and one that needs to be heeded. I found this part particularly interesting.

The current political climate doesn't help. Washington tends to keep its fiscal house in better order when one party controls Congress and the other is in the White House, says Sawhill.

The framers of the Consitution provided for Separation of Powers...checks and balances. Right now there are none because one party, and one party alone, controls both the Senate and the House and the White House.

And, health care is in a shambles...the cost is shameful. Insurance doesn't cover near what it used to, yet premiums continue to rise. And, what insurance doesn't cover, and patients can't pay, well...who pays for it? Somewhere, somehow, health care costs have got to be brought under control.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

The deficit is frightening and growing bigger, and bigger and bigger...

Alice
 
You girls are both old enough to know better. Macon has respectfully said , no politics. I would think you two could show enough respect to oblige him!
 
ollie'":2mxzkmqe said:
You girls are both old enough to know better. Macon has respectfully said , no politics. I would think you two could show enough respect to oblige him!

ok, I'll take out the thing about Tom Delay. the rest is not political...it's a statement of fact. no campaigning...no political party mentioned by name.

Alice
 
The whole thread is intentional. The whole thread is political. The whole point is political and I can even name the party to which you are affiliated and how you'll vote.
 
ollie'":fhzfwtzz said:
The whole thread is intentional. The whole thread is political. The whole point is political and I can even name the party to which you are affiliated and how you'll vote.

So? I can even name the party to which you are affiliated and how you'll vote...but I'm not gonna rag on you about it. It's your right, and your vote.

Alice
 
I'm not starting threads about politics. Play by the rules.
 
ollie'":eet7noaz said:
I'm not starting threads about politics. Play by the rules.

The article is about the looming deficit...nothing more, nothing less. It had bipartisan input.

Alice
 
Why don't you just pm macon and ask him. It's his forum. If he says it's ok then come back on here and tell me " I told you".
 
ollie'":2z6ueagd said:
Why don't you just pm macon and ask him. It's his forum. If he says it's ok then come back on here and tell me " I told you".

I'm not worried about it, Ollie. If Macon reads it and decides that it's not appropriate for his forum, then it isn't appropriate for his forum. He'll certainly get no argument from me about it.

Alice
 
Alice":27l7ma52 said:
ollie'":27l7ma52 said:
Why don't you just pm macon and ask him. It's his forum. If he says it's ok then come back on here and tell me " I told you".

I'm not worried about it, Ollie. If Macon reads it and decides that it's not appropriate for his forum, then it isn't appropriate for his forum. He'll certainly get no argument from me about it.

Alice
He has already asked that you don't discuss politics. Obviously some people can't or won't act nice.
 
I don't see anything inherently political in this thread either.. I've been trying to warn people of the ramifications of a huge national debt -- and a huge collective personal debt -- for quite some time now.

But, when I said things very similar to this...

From the article":3uhou7f8 said:
Some economists even predict the government would resort to printing money to pay off its debt, a risky strategy that could lead to runaway inflation.

...people shot back at me like I was some kind of nutcase. Like it was just completely out of the question that the government would choose to inflate away the national debt.. Even though the US Dollar has fallen in value over 30% in the last five years and nobody in an authoritative position has done anything to stop it, it's still just crazy talk to say that they might actually want the dollar to continue going lower. :roll:

Uh, yeah.. :roll:

Wake up people -- we're screwed.
 
This is an issue that won't go away, who ever is in charge of the government. It's an issue everyone should be concerned about, no matter what party they support.
 
Great topic! What programs should we cut first? How about farm subsidies? How about all research grants that have to do with human or animal sexuality, as far as I can tell the population isn't getting any smaller so what's the point? The medicare drug plan? I work at a nursing home and haven't herd anything but complaints. Instead of grants for college perhaps interest free loans. We still fall behind due to the rate of inflation but not as fast as when we're giving it away.

There is a guy on TV that advertises a book full of government programs. We should all get a book and visit Washington DC. I bet there are a lot of good ideas for cutting wasteful spending.

I've barely scratched the surface. Any more ideas?
 
Tod Dague":2qgjm14n said:
Great topic! What programs should we cut first? How about farm subsidies? How about all research grants that have to do with human or animal sexuality, as far as I can tell the population isn't getting any smaller so what's the point? The medicare drug plan? I work at a nursing home and haven't herd anything but complaints. Instead of grants for college perhaps interest free loans. We still fall behind due to the rate of inflation but not as fast as when we're giving it away.

There is a guy on TV that advertises a book full of government programs. We should all get a book and visit Washington DC. I bet there are a lot of good ideas for cutting wasteful spending.

I've barely scratched the surface. Any more ideas?

Excellent points, Tod! So many frivolous programs that are funded, when the money needs to go to the nuts and bolts, especially now.

That is what you said, wasn't it...about frivolous programs, i.e., human and animal sexuality (good grief, like there's not more important stuff goin' on right now!). If not, I truly apologize.

Alice
 
Alice":2306mrai said:
And, health care is in a shambles...the cost is shameful. Insurance doesn't cover near what it used to, yet premiums continue to rise. And, what insurance doesn't cover, and patients can't pay, well...who pays for it? Somewhere, somehow, health care costs have got to be brought under control.
We have access to some of the greatest health care in the world, the latest and best drugs, latest and best equipment, and the latest and best techniques, how can you figure that it would be cheap. The cost of research to develop these things and insure they are safe is through the roof.

If medicine was the same as it was 20 years ago the price of medicine would be about the same, but as new treatments come around people use them adding to the overall cost and lengthens the life expectancy of everyone. So what is an extra year of life worth to you?

My insurance is payed for out of my pocket and what isn't covered is payed for out of my pocket.

As for who pays for what isn't payed by others, that would be the tax payers and patrons of the hospital that pay their bills.

Any ideas on how to bring down cost?
 
Alice":38qc86lc said:
Excellent points, Tod! So many frivolous programs that are funded, when the money needs to go to the nuts and bolts, especially now.

That is what you said, wasn't it...about frivolous programs, i.e., human and animal sexuality (good grief, like there's not more important stuff goin' on right now!). If not, I truly apologize.

Alice
Exactly! I'm always for cutting waste.
I say we go to a national sales tax and eliminate the IRS while we're at it. Well maybe not totally eliminate it but shrink it dramatically.
 
Tod Dague":3kz9klz3 said:
Any ideas on how to bring down cost?

Get Americans out from in front of the television and get them active. They could plant a garden or something. Anything. Something like 50% of Americans are dangerously overweight. That have pretty much taken physical activities out of children's lives these days. When we were kids we played all over the neighborhood. Hide & Seek, Tap out of jail, Red Rover, and then there was ball games in the neighborhood and those weren't the organized ones with uniforms and umpires/referees. We didn't have 4 wheelers. We pushed bike pedals.
 
Tod Dague":1rgsc2sa said:
Alice":1rgsc2sa said:
And, health care is in a shambles...the cost is shameful. Insurance doesn't cover near what it used to, yet premiums continue to rise. And, what insurance doesn't cover, and patients can't pay, well...who pays for it? Somewhere, somehow, health care costs have got to be brought under control.
We have access to some of the greatest health care in the world, the latest and best drugs, latest and best equipment, and the latest and best techniques, how can you figure that it would be cheap. The cost of research to develop these things and insure they are safe is through the roof.

If medicine was the same as it was 20 years ago the price of medicine would be about the same, but as new treatments come around people use them adding to the overall cost and lengthens the life expectancy of everyone. So what is an extra year of life worth to you?

My insurance is payed for out of my pocket and what isn't covered is payed for out of my pocket.

As for who pays for what isn't payed by others, that would be the tax payers and patrons of the hospital that pay their bills.

Any ideas on how to bring down cost?

Tod, I wish I knew...I'm not an economist. I do know that my precious aunt is in the nursing home and I am jumping thru hoops to keep her there. Why? Because her teacher retirement and social security is $8 more than what is allowed for medicaid.

As for what is an extra year worth...in my aunt's condition, it's not worth a nickel...and she'd tell ya' the same thing. I'm sorry, I can't be objective when it comes to this.

Alice
 
backhoeboogie":2qfyrsn9 said:
Tod Dague":2qfyrsn9 said:
Any ideas on how to bring down cost?

Get Americans out from in front of the television and get them active. They could plant a garden or something. Anything. Something like 50% of Americans are dangerously overweight. That have pretty much taken physical activities out of children's lives these days. When we were kids we played all over the neighborhood. Hide & Seek, Tap out of jail, Red Rover, and then there was ball games in the neighborhood and those weren't the organized ones with uniforms and umpires/referees. We didn't have 4 wheelers. We pushed bike pedals.
Sounds good should we make it a law or just spend more on advertising?

Here is an idea for reducing the cost of medicare. Treat the money going in like insurance companies do. Invest it and let it grow until it is needed instead of pumping it into the general fund to be spent willy-nilly. Where as insurance companies have to collect the check now and start paying out benefits the first year or shortly after, we start paying in with our first paycheck and don't get to use it for another 40 years. I wonder what the Dow was 40 years ago?
 
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