Thanks USDA

[Lon]

[Allot of cattle died in feed lots this past summer, most of it could have been prevented. Feeding grain in the summer heat escalates their body temperature, that is why most started feeding late in the evening or at night, so they could cool back down by the time the heat came on again. Turning them loose in a pea field or corn field in the summer heat was probably not a good idea, they ate and over heated themselves. Maybe look at controlling when they eat the next time.

Feedlot cattle have been raised on high grain for ages. Grain is required to get the daily weight gain required to stand any chance of making a profit. Low quality forages require more energy to consume and digest than high quality corn and other grain by-products and at least with the grain you get some gain. In feedlots that IS the goal. Being hit with a once in a lifetime heat wave probably killed a few fine people as well and noone was to blame nor was diet. It's not something people or cattle can adjust to rapidly and certainly not something you would build your entire opearation around. As for color....hot is hot and 1/2 degree of temperature difference between black and red is hardly a huge factor. Addition of yeast to the ration can also lower temperature about that much but it cost a lot of money when you're talking about tens of thousands of head of cattle in a feedlot. This is just one of those things that breaks your heart, makes you blame yourself even thought it wasn't your fault and puts some operators completely out of business. Then folks wonder why meat cost a little more than they think it should cost. Gotta figure a bit in there for "risk".

:clap: :clap: Great post TB i like how you can always put it out there in a sensable way for everyone to understand. you and 3way your posts always make a great point and i like reading them and old 3way well he sure does always bring a smile to a guys face with his responses.

 

[inbredredneck]

Lets put it this way, all of my cattle are black, and they have seen plenty of 105+ days with 90+ % humidity, so hot and humid when you walk outside your shirt is soaked in sweat in 30 minutes or less. Funny how we don't have any dead cattle though, no sprinklers to cool them down either, nor fans, I guess we must be doing something right in the southeast. :tiphat: Keep up the good work up there, you have it all figured out and need no advice from anyone, I can tell. :roll:

I tell you what see if you can find someone a whole lot smarter than me that will expain to you the difference between RH and dewpoint.

 

[Lon]

Turning them loose in a pea field or corn field in the summer heat was probably not a good idea, they ate and over heated themselves. Maybe look at controlling when they eat the next time.

Yeah I imagine the really over ate on all that black dirt left after pea harvest and a two passes with disc ripper. Maybe you didn't read but they exited the corn field as fast as they went in it. As far as their diet on that fatefull day, feeding them in the evening would have made no difference as they had not ate anything for the previous 2 days. You have no idea the conditions these cattle fought thru for 3 nights and 2 days. Thanks for the advice on how to do it right. How many cattle do you have on feed again?

Lets put it this way, all of my cattle are black, and they have seen plenty of 105+ days with 90+ % humidity, so hot and humid when you walk outside your shirt is soaked in sweat in 30 minutes or less. Funny how we don't have any dead cattle though, no sprinklers to cool them down either, nor fans, I guess we must be doing something right in the southeast. :tiphat: Keep up the good work up there, you have it all figured out and need no advice from anyone, I can tell. :roll:

i am sure you are doing things in the southwest right exspecially for dealing with the heat. just like i am sure the people from Northern MN and Canada breed cattle to handle the cold. it was hot everywhere more than usual but up in this area we dont breed cattle for the heat and they sure are not climated for it. i am sure if you was hit with a devasting winter blizzard like they can get with the extreme cold and blizzards that last for days and said you lost a bunch of cattle from it someone from up north here wouldnt get on and tell you that our cattle see that plenty so cold and freezing you can where all the clothes you want and cant get warm so cold you can plug in an outfit in a barn and it still wont start and thats its funny we dont loose them cattle to that kind of weather.
my point is everyone breeds to what thier norm is and when the weather hits an extreme that is exactly opposite of the kind of extremes thier used to sh%$ does sometimes happen.

 

[hillsdown]

This is what I found on Dr Grandins website. If I do get a chance to speak with her on the 18th I may try and ask more .

Heat Stress and Lameness in Fed Feedlot Cattle is Detrimental to Animal Welfare
By Temple Grandin
Department of Animal Sciences
Colorado State University
Updated October 2011



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the summer of 2006, a severe cattle welfare problem was first observed at three slaughter plants. Large numbers of fed feedlot cattle were lame and a few animals had severe heat stress symptoms. I have worked with cattle for over 30 years and this is the first time I have seen severe heat stress in crossbreds which were part Brahman (Bos Indicus) genetics. The cattle came from three different feedlots. All of the cattle were healthy looking feedlot cattle and their feet looked completely normal. All the animals were clean and came from dry feedlots with no mud. Foot rot can be ruled out because the animals came from lots in an area experiencing a drought. None of the cattle were overweight or over fat. Their estimated live weight was between 450 to 540 kg (1000 to 1200 lbs). At the first plant the temperature was over 38 degrees C (100 F) and the animals were in a lairage equipped with sprinklers. About one third had mild to moderate lameness and no heat stress symptoms. At the second plant, there were a few lame cattle and two healthy feedlot steers refused to get up. The third plant had the worst heat stress problems. The temperature was in the 32 to 34 degrees C (low 90's F) range. The sprinklers were off. Ten to 25% of the animals were mildly to moderately lame. About 5 to 10% were panting and one or two animals from each truck load were lying down and panting hard. Their tongues were hanging out. One animal was sitting like a dog and acted stiff and arthritic when the driver made him get up. I have observed feedlot fed beef cattle during hot weather in Arizona, Australia, and other places where it is very hot. This was the first time I saw this odd combination of lameness and heat stress. All the animals were clean, with smooth coats and no coughing or runny noses. This is a serious problem that must be corrected. To figure out what is causing the problem, one has to ask: What changes have been made in the feeding industry that would have happened during the last two years?

The recent changes are:

Feeding ractopamine to make animals leaner.

Growing and fattening cattle more quickly to reach market weight by 20 months for the export to market.

Feeding wet grain products from ethanol plants. This can be ruled out because this feed was not available during the summer of 2006 in the area where the feedlots were located.

Since 2006 there have been additional reports of heat stress in some cattle that are fed beta-agonists.
In the summer of 2011 I observed fed steers arriving at a plant in over 100 degrees F (38 degrees C) temperatures with severe heat stress and stiff type lameness. These animals walked with a stiff hesitant gait and were definately clinically lame. The percentage of lame steers varied from 5 to 10% on a truck load to 50%. Some animals had open mouth breathing. The hooves had no signs of pathology such as foot rot. It is highly likely that the lameness and open mouth breathing was related to an unknown dose of either Ractopamine or Zilpaterol, which are beta-agonist drugs used for growth promotion. All steers were unloaded promptly at the plant.

I recommend measuring outcomes instead of inputs. Fed feedlot cattle that arrive at slaughter plants should be scored for lameness and heat stress symptoms. Feedback should be provided back to the feedlots so that the problem can be corrected. Terry Mader from the University of Nebraska states that when cattle are open mouth panting they have severe heat stress. The first symptom of heat stress is drooling. Cattle that show signs of heat stress must be provided with either sprinklers or shades. When normal cattle breath, the head will remain still. When they are in a pre-heat stress state, their heads will start to bob up and down. Cattle that start to head bob should be carefully watched for further signs of heat stress.

http://www.grandin.com/heat.stress.lameness.html

 

[tmlonghorns]

Sounds like animal cruelty charges should of been filed. I just hope it doesn't happen again. To many people put profit ahead animal rights.

I don't believe that a stocking rate of one steer per 1393 sq. feet along with access to all the water they could drink, but wouldn't drink, could be considered animal cruelty. Guess you should have been in my shoes then it would have got done right.

I have been reading this thread and reserving judgement until now. At first I thought something was fishy but wanted to give the benefit to inbred. Someone earlier stated that he/she disagreed with government handouts for those that could not manage their business and I agree with that statement.

The above post by inbred is what put me over the edge.

He lost 612 steers but we are not told if that was his entire herd or not. I find it very hard to believe that he his entire herd died of heat stroke in one day so I question whyt he didn't start selling when he noticed he had a problem. But again, maybe this was one in day and was his entire herd.

But to post that he had 1393 Sq. ft. per head is just insane. Inbred, you do realize that is less than 20 acres for at least 612 head?

 

[BC]

He lost 612 steers but we are not told if that was his entire herd or not. I find it very hard to believe that he his entire herd died of heat stroke in one day so I question whyt he didn't start selling when he noticed he had a problem. But again, maybe this was one in day and was his entire herd.

But to post that he had 1393 Sq. ft. per head is just insane. Inbred, you do realize that is less than 20 acres for at least 612 head?

Cattle were in a midwest feedyard.

 

[TexasBred]

Lets put it this way, all of my cattle are black, and they have seen plenty of 105+ days with 90+ % humidity, so hot and humid when you walk outside your shirt is soaked in sweat in 30 minutes or less. Funny how we don't have any dead cattle though, no sprinklers to cool them down either, nor fans, I guess we must be doing something right in the southeast. :tiphat: Keep up the good work up there, you have it all figured out and need no advice from anyone, I can tell. :roll:

And how many pounds of gain per head per day were you getting out of these cattle? How much did milk production drop if they were lactating?? How many fetus' did they abort if they were bred??

 

[inbredredneck]

tmlonghorns I'm guessing your post is a joke because nobody could be that stupid.

 

[TexasBred]

The above post by inbred is what put me over the edge.He lost 612 steers but we are not told if that was his entire herd or not. I find it very hard to believe that he his entire herd died of heat stroke in one day so I question whyt he didn't start selling when he noticed he had a problem. But again, maybe this was one in day and was his entire herd.

But to post that he had 1393 Sq. ft. per head is just insane. Inbred, you do realize that is less than 20 acres for at least 612 head?

The entire post may be a farce. IBRN has been known to pull a laugher on folks from time to time but regardless...even if it just a hypothetical situation he got comments,thoughts, condemnation and even idiotic comments from folks. :lol2:

 

[TexasBred]

Old 3way well he sure does always bring a smile to a guys face with his responses.

Lon....whatever you do keep an eye on "Ol' 3way". He's a bit "touched" at times but it comes and goes so he does have a few good days. :mrgreen:

 

[RD-Sam]

Lets put it this way, all of my cattle are black, and they have seen plenty of 105+ days with 90+ % humidity, so hot and humid when you walk outside your shirt is soaked in sweat in 30 minutes or less. Funny how we don't have any dead cattle though, no sprinklers to cool them down either, nor fans, I guess we must be doing something right in the southeast. :tiphat: Keep up the good work up there, you have it all figured out and need no advice from anyone, I can tell. :roll:

And how many pounds of gain per head per day were you getting out of these cattle? How much did milk production drop if they were lactating?? How many fetus' did they abort if they were bred??

This summer was brutal and I had the best growth I have ever had out of the calves, up to 3.66 ADG with no creep, cows milked great. I've only had one abort, and I think it was because we moved her too soon.

 

[RD-Sam]

i am sure you are doing things in the southwest right exspecially for dealing with the heat. just like i am sure the people from Northern MN and Canada breed cattle to handle the cold. it was hot everywhere more than usual but up in this area we dont breed cattle for the heat and they sure are not climated for it. i am sure if you was hit with a devasting winter blizzard like they can get with the extreme cold and blizzards that last for days and said you lost a bunch of cattle from it someone from up north here wouldnt get on and tell you that our cattle see that plenty so cold and freezing you can where all the clothes you want and cant get warm so cold you can plug in an outfit in a barn and it still wont start and thats its funny we dont loose them cattle to that kind of weather.
my point is everyone breeds to what thier norm is and when the weather hits an extreme that is exactly opposite of the kind of extremes thier used to sh%$ does sometimes happen.

The point is, there are ways of dealing with the heat and high humidity in feedlot situations, people in the heat and humidity figured it out long ago, and you can plan for it with a simple weather forecast. Inbred doesn't need any help though, he has it all figured out, he only lost 600+ head. :dunce:

By the way, we broke 3" of ice out of the water tank this morning, we tend to get a little of all kinds of weather, maybe not 2+ feet of snow, but we do get up to a foot sometimes, and freezing rain that can turn the place into a solid sheet of ice that may last weeks.

 

[TexasBred]

Lets put it this way, all of my cattle are black, and they have seen plenty of 105+ days with 90+ % humidity, so hot and humid when you walk outside your shirt is soaked in sweat in 30 minutes or less. Funny how we don't have any dead cattle though, no sprinklers to cool them down either, nor fans, I guess we must be doing something right in the southeast. :tiphat: Keep up the good work up there, you have it all figured out and need no advice from anyone, I can tell. :roll:

And how many pounds of gain per head per day were you getting out of these cattle? How much did milk production drop if they were lactating?? How many fetus' did they abort if they were bred??

This summer was brutal and I had the best growth I have ever had out of the calves, up to 3.66 ADG with no creep, cows milked great. I've only had one abort, and I think it was because we moved her too soon.

Wow they did milk...that means everything weaned around 850 lbs. at 210 days.

 

[RD-Sam]

Wow they did milk...that means everything weaned around 850 lbs. at 210 days.

No, not everyone, and no, not 850 lbs. Although, It wouldn't surprise me to see some 800+ pound weaning weights this year.

 

[inbredredneck]

The point is, there are ways of dealing with the heat and high humidity in feedlot situations, people in the heat and humidity figured it out long ago, and you can plan for it with a simple weather forecast. Inbred doesn't need any help though, he has it all figured out, he only lost 600+ head. :dunce:

You would be the one who could tell us how to feed cattle in the heat, after all your cattle are exposed to 209 degree heat index regularly. By the way the highest recorded heat index ever was recorded on July 8 2003 in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. The relative humidity was 67% and the temperature was 108°F (42°C), making it feel like 176°F (80°C). Heck you set a new record all the time and nobody knows it but you.

 

[RD-Sam]

The point is, there are ways of dealing with the heat and high humidity in feedlot situations, people in the heat and humidity figured it out long ago, and you can plan for it with a simple weather forecast. Inbred doesn't need any help though, he has it all figured out, he only lost 600+ head. :dunce:

You would be the one who could tell us how to feed cattle in the heat, after all your cattle are exposed to 209 degree heat index regularly. By the way the highest recorded heat index ever was recorded on July 8 2003 in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. The relative humidity was 67% and the temperature was 108°F (42°C), making it feel like 176°F (80°C). Heck you set a new record all the time and nobody knows it but you.

You're welcome to search Georgia and Alabama and see what the heat index is, or you could come down and hang out on a hot and humid day and see what you think. I never said we had a 209 heat index, or anything close to it. Although a small shower on a 105 degree day sure feels about that hot. I think our record temp is 112. :tiphat:

 

[inbredredneck]

The point is, there are ways of dealing with the heat and high humidity in feedlot situations, people in the heat and humidity figured it out long ago, and you can plan for it with a simple weather forecast. Inbred doesn't need any help though, he has it all figured out, he only lost 600+ head. :dunce:

You would be the one who could tell us how to feed cattle in the heat, after all your cattle are exposed to 209 degree heat index regularly. By the way the highest recorded heat index ever was recorded on July 8 2003 in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. The relative humidity was 67% and the temperature was 108°F (42°C), making it feel like 176°F (80°C). Heck you set a new record all the time and nobody knows it but you.

You're welcome to search Georgia and Alabama and see what the heat index is, or you could come down and hang out on a hot and humid day and see what you think. I never said we had a 209 heat index, or anything close to it. Although a small shower on a 105 degree day sure feels about that hot. I think our record temp is 112. :tiphat:

Have someone a whole lot smarter than me show you what the heat index of 105+ degrees and 95%+ RH would be. You sir are completely full of it. Nothing you say could ever be taken seriously.

 

[RD-Sam]

Wow they did milk...that means everything weaned around 850 lbs. at 210 days.

I see what you are harping about, I meant WDA, not ADG. give me your address and I'll be glad to mail you a report from the AAA if you like. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

You three need to get a room

 

[inbredredneck]

Well fellers I just reviewed the facts and the facts are MN gets hotter than both Georgia and Alabama. Thats gotta suck for those tuff Southern fellas.