Terminal or Maternal

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am not arguing, just find that hard to believe, from my own experience and research shows Simmental is the best marbling continental - with Angus being the best British.
Bestoutwest said it would be best to have "all the cows a similar breed/type so that there is some consistency ". This may very well be true, but isn't something you can do overnight. Unless money isn't a factor.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I am not arguing, just find that hard to believe, from my own experience and research shows Simmental is the best marbling continental - with Angus being the best British.

Yes. The biggest BA seed stock operation in our area started offering half blood bulls for that reason. They also buy back calves and like feeding quarter bloods. They use Simi power bulls like Genex' Tanker on high capacity BA cows.

I asked about keeping back quarter blood sim angus replacements from these breedings. They said fine - - as long as you sort off the biggest end for "too much power". I am getting to that point. I have a couple that no longer fit in my chute coming off fall pasture. :nod:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

LOL - I have cows that can go IN the chute, but you best be opening the side to get them OUT. And they are only 5 - 6.5 type frame size cows. Just a little WIDE

 

[Stocker Steve]

Mine is a home made wood chute, and I have not had to use the chain saw yet...

One cow did have to take a break, and pass some organic matter, before she dog paddled her way out.

 

[elkwc]

I am not arguing, just find that hard to believe, from my own experience and research shows Simmental is the best marbling continental - with Angus being the best British.

Yes. The biggest BA seed stock operation in our area started offering half blood bulls for that reason. They also buy back calves and like feeding quarter bloods. They use Simi power bulls like Genex' Tanker on high capacity BA cows.

I asked about keeping back quarter blood sim angus replacements from these breedings. They said fine - - as long as you sort off the biggest end for "too much power". I am getting to that point. I have a couple that no longer fit in my chute coming off fall pasture. :nod:

We have that issue with some of our cows and bulls. Some aren't that tall but deep and soggy. The mfg of the hydraulic chute had to come out and make modifications on the one we use. They still fit so tight I don't run them through the chute unless i have too. I try to do everything in the adjustable alley and let them out the gate at the front. The mfg couldn't believe the issues we have. He said it was only the 2nd time that he had a customer with this issue.

 

[elkwc]

elkwc - where are you located?

I live in extreme SW KS and also help with and run cattle in west central OK. I was raised on ranches in NE NM, the Texas Panhandle and then SW KS. Have had been around lots in this area and the TX Panhandle. So know people involved from a wide area with differing experience and views. Many call this area the heart of the feedlot country. We are close to the center of many big lots.

 

[elkwc]

I am not arguing, just find that hard to believe, from my own experience and research shows Simmental is the best marbling continental - with Angus being the best British.
Bestoutwest said it would be best to have "all the cows a similar breed/type so that there is some consistency ". This may very well be true, but isn't something you can do overnight. Unless money isn't a factor.

Jeanne I won't argue about whether they are the best marbling continental or not. That is just one of the reasons that I've been told for limiting the continental influence including Simmie. Another one is cost of gain. As more than one feeder have told me ADG is just part of the equation. If high ADG comes with a high input then many times it isn't as effecient as one with a lower ADG but better feed efficiency. Like you not trying to start an argument but what I've been told by those who feed cattle and what I've seen. That is why when I see big yearling weights, ect I want to know what it cost to attain those weights. The calf I kept for a bull last year weighed 1000 lbs when weaned at 8 months off his mother and was never creep fed. He comes from a program that breeds for growth, efficiency and also grade and yield on the rail. Like I said I've seen pics of the Black Simmies that I like and would of tried a few if I could of bought them. But not going the bull route because of what I've seen neighbors experience.

 

[Silver]

Around here some feeders have told me they shy away from straight Angus, one reason being that when an Angus is finished they are finished. You can't hold them an extra week or two because every dollar put into them is dollars straight out the window. They tell me exotics you can keep feeding and still get a return on the investment while waiting for markets to improve. Another thing they tell me about exotics is that they may take more feed to finish but the return from a better cutting carcass more than off sets the difference.
We run a herd of mongrels, but try to keep the Angus (red in our case) influence from getting too strong.

 

[elkwc]

Around here some feeders have told me they shy away from straight Angus, one reason being that when an Angus is finished they are finished. You can't hold them an extra week or two because every dollar put into them is dollars straight out the window. They tell me exotics you can keep feeding and still get a return on the investment while waiting for markets to improve. Another thing they tell me about exotics is that they may take more feed to finish but the return from a better cutting carcass more than off sets the difference.
We run a herd of mongrels, but try to keep the Angus (red in our case) influence from getting too strong.

Silver where are you located. What you have been told is very different from what I'm told.Just curious. It seems things vary a lot from one area to another.

 

[Silver]

Silver where are you located. What you have been told is very different from what I'm told.Just curious. It seems things vary a lot from one area to another.

I agree, from reading on this forum it's surprising how things vary from area to area. I'm in Northern BC, about as far North as cattle are raised, at least in any significant numbers.

 

[Muddy]

Many people are complaining about Black Angus cattle not being good performers and that they are lacking muscles. Balancers and SimAngus are mighty popular in this area so they add more muscle in the calves. Yeah yeah I know Angus are mighty popular, but Angus cross calves are topping the sales here, unlike the straightbred Angus calves. The people also complained about their average wean weight of straightbred Angus calves being so low.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Many people are complaining about Black Angus cattle not being good performers and that they are lacking muscles. Balancers and SimAngus are mighty popular in this area so they add more muscle in the calves. Yeah yeah I know Angus are mighty popular, but Angus cross calves are topping the sales here, unlike the straightbred Angus calves. The people also complained about their average wean weight of straightbred Angus calves being so low.

Selection, Is the biggest problem with that.. And the fact that their a Maternal breed... They want those low birthweights, and overlook Ever other trait...

 

[Muddy]

Many people are complaining about Black Angus cattle not being good performers and that they are lacking muscles. Balancers and SimAngus are mighty popular in this area so they add more muscle in the calves. Yeah yeah I know Angus are mighty popular, but Angus cross calves are topping the sales here, unlike the straightbred Angus calves. The people also complained about their average wean weight of straightbred Angus calves being so low.

Selection, Is the biggest problem with that.. And the fact that their a Maternal breed... They want those low birthweights, and overlook Ever other trait...

Yup, and you have hard doing Angus cows and hatchet azzed bulls. Poor quality Angus cattle are what drive the people towards to the other breeds and raises them. I talked to a Beefmaster breeder in Minnesota, and he doesn't like the Angus average weanweight so he ran his Beefmaster bull on his Angus cows. His BM x BA calves topped the sales for three years straight and has 100-200lbs extra in calves before they are 7 months old.

 

[elkwc]

Single trait selection has had negative effects on several breeds. In the effort to attain low BW's many have lost muscling and growth. The same can be said about those who have selected for carcass traits. Many breeders using AI sires have experienced structural soundness issues. Those who run cattle in rough country that require a cow to travel notice these issues more. Angus aren't the only breed with issues. There are certain bloodlines and breeders who still breed straight bred Angus that have muscling, growth and good carcass traits. Another trait that many breeds have lost is longtivity. Certain Hereford and Angus bloodlines still have it.and why we are focusing on that cross.

 

[Muddy]

Single trait selection has had negative effects on several breeds. In the effort to attain low BW's many have lost muscling and growth. The same can be said about those who have selected for carcass traits. Many breeders using AI sires have experienced structural soundness issues. Those who run cattle in rough country that require a cow to travel notice these issues more. Angus aren't the only breed with issues. There are certain bloodlines and breeders who still breed straight bred Angus that have muscling, growth and good carcass traits. Another trait that many breeds have lost is longtivity. Certain Hereford and Angus bloodlines still have it.and why we are focusing on that cross.

I dunno about you, but it seems Angus has more issues than any breeds other than Hereford. Maybe that's because Angus cattle are dirty common than most breeds. Not lot of Angus have good longevity. Our Galloway x Angus cross cows are still in excellent condition in their teen's but our straight Angus cows are fall apart after their 10th bday. I noticed that Black Angus cattle have poor dispositions on average compared to most breeds. The Beefmaster breeder I mentioned, also seek out for better longevity and better disposition traits, something that most Black Angus doesn't have.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

When you got ""multiplied millions""" of breeders all over this country breeding them. Every one of them with different ideas,. There's gonna be problems...reason you see that calf that was raised in the back pasture, that turned out better then anything you could intentionally raise..

 

[elkwc]

Single trait selection has had negative effects on several breeds. In the effort to attain low BW's many have lost muscling and growth. The same can be said about those who have selected for carcass traits. Many breeders using AI sires have experienced structural soundness issues. Those who run cattle in rough country that require a cow to travel notice these issues more. Angus aren't the only breed with issues. There are certain bloodlines and breeders who still breed straight bred Angus that have muscling, growth and good carcass traits. Another trait that many breeds have lost is longtivity. Certain Hereford and Angus bloodlines still have it.and why we are focusing on that cross.

I dunno about you, but it seems Angus has more issues than any breeds other than Hereford. Maybe that's because Angus cattle are dirty common than most breeds. Not lot of Angus have good longevity. Our Galloway x Angus cross cows are still in excellent condition in their teen's but our straight Angus cows are fall apart after their 10th bday. I noticed that Black Angus cattle have poor dispositions on average compared to most breeds. The Beefmaster breeder I mentioned, also seek out for better longevity and better disposition traits, something that most Black Angus doesn't have.

My experience and observations are different than yours. IMO overall Angus and Horned Herefords have less issues than the other breeds. We used one Balancer and will likely never use another. We have Angus cows that are 15-16 y/o and never missed a calf. We are culling them now. If using anything sired by a bull a AI service you had better be careful. We have had more disposition issues with the exotics , Gelvveigh and Chars. Limmies and Simmies have both had issues. So regardless of what breed I use I'm very selective when selecting one.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

There are "issues" with all breeds. Strictly depends on the breeder and bloodlines being used.

 

[True Grit Farms]

There are "issues" with all breeds. Strictly depends on the breeder and bloodlines being used.

I feel that's only part of the equation. Animals vary to some degree and the person handling the animal can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Temperament -absolutely. Some breeders shouldn't be allowed to own any kind of animal. "Some" temperament problems are inherited - some are not.