Subsidy

[Frankie]

Years ago, the grain farmers agreed to the subsidy program because they couldn't get enough for their crops to stay in business. Cattlemen opted out of such a program. Our government has a cheap food policy. We pay the smallest percentage of our income for food than any industuralized nation. If those subsidies stopped, food prices would skyrocket. You'll either pay the taxes and subsidize food or you'll pay a lot more; I've seen estimates up to $10 for a loaf of bread.

Maybe you can afford that, but many people in the US are poor. They can still eat well because of subsidized grain production.

Yes, more grain is grown because it's subsidized by the government and your taxes. It contributes to the cheap feed and better prices for your cattle.

Small wheat farmers around here get enough money from the government to just about put a crop in the ground. If they can't graze the wheat, they'll just about break even because it generally costs more to have it cut than it's worth per bushel.

We, too, use some Federal programs. We've built and renovated several ponds over the years using government money. Those ponds keep the soil from washing away and I think that's important.

 

[dun]

I've alwasy looked at it as getting back some of my hard earned tax dollars.
CB I suppose you turn down your social security check every month too.

dun

 

[Bobg]

There's been a few articles out in the last year that say around 65% of the "farmers" don't receive or take any subsidies. Most of these are close to large population bases and grow a diversity of crops. They are able to charge more for their produce, due to it being locally grown. On my Mom's farm she gets very little in subsidy payments, only around $800/year, due to lack of base. I have a neighbor that is in a corp with his brother and I don't know how many family members and they get close to $300K a year.

I have a neighbor that raises Highland cattle and sell it for $4.00 hanging weight plus the $.40 cut and wrap fee. I think you will start seeing more small farms in large population areas forego participation in farm programs and start growing more diversity produce and still do better.

Bobg

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the way i look at it the money could be going for research for some treehugger or some enviromentilist study too give the farmer and rancher more he!!. in other words the money gonna go somewere why not to the folks that need it

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

Caustic
I guess you do not deduct your house interest when you do your taxes? That is also a subsidy in my humble opinion. I have paid a lot of taxes in my 30 years of working my butt off and guess what I will take back some of them taxes through a subsidy. I will just think it as a tax savings.

 

[redfornow]

God, You got to love old CB
Always stirring the pot, I dont think he gives a d@mn about hobby farmer, gov subs, or anything for that matter. He just loves to toss some crap against the wall and see how much sticks.

I bet old CB got some cross fencing and corn growin himself.
Probley out at the mailbox getting his check as we speak...

MD

 

[denoginnizer]

Why should someone recieve a direct payment check from the gov when he/she has no crop, and has no intention of growing a crop? Who is this benefitting , other than the property owner? Why is the gov paying someone to do nothing?

 

[milesvb]

I've alwasy looked at it as getting back some of my hard earned tax dollars.
dun

This is how I chose to look at the cost share programs although the way some are run can be downright silly. If I contribute into the system then I might as well get some of it back for doing something positive that I may not be able to afford otherwise.
What is the welfare queen contributing? More babies to become future welfare recipients?

And for those who think they can avoid benefitting from subsidies, I seriously doubt it. The system is just too pervasive.

If we are going to cut ag-subsidies then cut them all and that goes for the welfare queen as well.

 

[aplusmnt]

I kind of straddle the fence on this issue. I agree with Caustic, that there should be no subsidies in anything! Let the free Market take care of all things, if a business fails it fails, if bread cost $10.00 a loaf then let it! Eventually things will adjust and all will be good. Anything the government gets involved in only turns out bad when you look at the big picture. Problem is they narrow their blinders down so the only look at a bunch of small pictures.

Now that being said, since the government has got it all screwed up. I would take money from any farm assist program to better my farm and get some of my tax dollars back. I would not do something solely for the reason of a handout from the government, I am not going to start raising corn because I will get a big pay day. But I will take money to build cross fencing since it only assist me in trying to do what I would be trying to do even if there was no programs for assistance.

 

[W.B.]

CB: Again I will disagree. I wish that the government would stop all subsidies for everything today. And with it end all welfare to anyone who has been on it longer than say about 6 months. We all know these things won't happen. With that said we all are subsidized in some way wether it be directly or indirectly.


On the ethanol front making corn into ethanol is increasing the price of feeder cattle by making by-products that are used in feeding cattle. I know of quite a few small cattle feeders that tell me they feed cattle mostly because of the readily available distillers grains that are cheap and local. The corn is here it is more economical to feed it here than to haul the corn and the cattle somewhere else. If the founding fathers would have had your attitude about starting a new democracy as you have about ethanol we all would still be paying homage to the king and queen.

 

[TheBullLady]

I think some of this is getting mixed up. There are two different "programs" being talked about.

Farm subsidies are the checks producers get for NOT producing a crop.. here in Texas anyone with a "base" can get these for a period of 7 years, and they go down in value every year. I'm pretty sure this is also tied up in the insured crop deal. You pay insurance on your crop before it's planted, and if you don't yield a certain amount, you get a check from the gov't making up the difference. I know a lot of farmers around here that NEVER make the yield... seems like they need a new profession?

The second gov't program is the cost share program, which you sign up for with USDA, and it's based on what type of program is being offered in your area. One year it may be waterways and terracing, one year permanent grasses, etc. Here you can do a 5 or 10 year program, with certain proceedures to be done every year, or a "one time" deal. The soil and conservation agent has to come out and make sure you have a property that will fit the need, and there's only so much $$ in a fund that will cover the costs, so first come, first served.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Its bad to go against the thinking of all you good people, but I am with caustic on this one. If it comes from the government, it doesn't matter what it is called. Tobacco? the smokers are paying your way - then you have the robbing Peter to pay Paul govment syndrome. There is never going to be money left over in any fund. If tobacco goes broke from this, they'll fund tobacco from somehwere else.

Nuke plants been paying the govment millions per year for a repository. Some been paying for over 40 years (a half billion for one nuke unit). Now the government says there no money to build a repository. Where did all those billions go?

Our government is flat broke and cannot pay its debts. Chapter 13 is going to come one of these days or else we need to do something.

I pay my taxes too.

 

[C HOLLAND]

Our government is flat broke and cannot pay its debts. Chapter 13 is going to come one of these days or else we need to do something.

I pay my taxes too.

OH NOOOOOOOOO did the printing press for them $$$$$$ tear up.

AMEN bhb

 

[aplusmnt]

If the founding fathers would have had your attitude about starting a new democracy as you have about ethanol we all would still be paying homage to the king and queen.

I might be wrong but I kind of thought the founding fathers were against Government control (the king) and all the Taxation that was being forced on them? Was that not the biggest reason for the Revolutionary war?

Subsidies are funded by Taxation! This is not some imaginary money that is floating around out there. It is my Janitorial Business being Taxed to pay farmers to not raise corn! I will deal with high beef prices, high corn prices, I can accept the consequences of a Free Market with limited Government intervention. If gas prices get to high I will ride my mule, if bread cost to much I will do with out bread, if corn cost to much to feed my cattle I will go to Grass fed only.

Let the Free Market take care of itself. If Farmers can not make money raising Corn, then I have a job cleaning toilets for them!

Now that being said, as long as government has it all screwed up and I qualify for some fencing assistance or drought help. I will take it. Just trying to get some of that Janitorial Tax money back!

 

[Bluestem]

What funny is the receiver isn't always saving any money. An example, When the gov. comes out with a new program to convert crop land to grass. They cost share 50/50. But the price of the seed doubles. Those of us not in the progam get burned, those in the program didn't save a dime and they have to mess with the red tape. The market drove me to grow my own seed, and now I save twice as much as I did before the program. :roll:

 

[lakading]

There is many a program here that we could apply for funds to help out with things needed on the farm but, my father-inlaw won't apply for any and says it's no different than someone laying on their a$$ and collecting welfare. His opinion is that the problems with farming today is the government being involved in the process and says he wants no part of the governments help or their money.

My opinion is, IF you dont apply for the programs that are being offered, someone else will.If the State or USDA has a program available to me that will help us out with equipment or other improvements, I'm going to take advantage of it.

Crowder on most things I agree with you but on this we will have to disagree. I see this as no different than government housing makes little difference if they built the house or pay to have it built. If you take a government subsidy that money comes from a taxpayer to support you.
I guess I had been living at the end of the road to long found this and several other articles very interesting.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/BG1542.cfm

If all of your competitors are taking the subsidies and you don't, you won't be competitive very long.

That said, I agree with you, Caustic. Take the subsidies away. Remove the incentive to flood the market with excess supply. Make it into a true business. If there's no more demand and you're still supplying, you're gonna see RED. Lots of red.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Could someone please answer an ignorant question from someone who still has alot to learn?

Why does the government pay someone to not grow certain crops? I have never understood this.

Katherine

 

[lakading]

Guys no matter how we try to justify this if you are taking money from the government, it cost Americans in tax dollars.
Some one else is footing the bill.

True. However, I contend that the property taxes on my farmland foot the education bill for the kids of those city folk who own no land.

 

[lakading]

I said this before and I really believe it, If you live in the good old USA you benefit either directly or indirectly from Government Subsidies.

Yup.

You get a higher price for your feeders because the feedlots feed is cheaper because the government subsidizes the grain farmers to overproduce.

Yet it is only considered welfare for those who directly receive the payment.

Better be careful who you scrutinize. You may end up looking in the mirror.

 

[lakading]

Why should someone recieve a direct payment check from the gov when he/she has no crop, and has no intention of growing a crop?

They don't.