Subsidy

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Caustic Burno

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Ponderin this subsidy issue on the tractor today.
Lets see the cattleman has to be efficient or tighter than a crabs butt cause we have to pay federal taxes to subsidize corn farmers to grow corn to make more expensive fuel to make more expensive feed so we can raise more calfs to pay more taxes to subsidize more corn, to drive feeder profits down so they have to pay less for calfs at the barn so we have to sell more calfs to pay taxes to subsidize to pay for corn.

I have never known a Cattleman have his herd subsidized and would have had to much pride to take it.
If you aren't smart enough to make a profit your out of business.
 
If you do a search on "farm subsidy data base" you can see how much the '' mail box farmers" in different counties are making.
 
That subsidized grain keeps feed costs down for feedlots. They can pay more for cattle if they pay less for feed.
 
Frankie":1c21pdbq said:
That subsidized grain keeps feed costs down for feedlots. They can pay more for cattle if they pay less for feed.

Not if we are going to have to make fuel with it.

I will make sure to go out of my way to keep from buying any corn product I don't believe in welfare in any form.
 
Caustic Burno":3151ielt said:
I will make sure to go out of my way to keep from buying any corn product I don't believe in welfare in any form.
I'm sure you can live without Fritos and corn flakes. But what are you gonna use for hog bait? You've only got so many fingers and you still need them to count with. Be hard to get a trap full of hogs with no more fingers than you've got left. :lol:
 
Seems to me that subsidies means more corn produced, greater supply, lower prices. Lower corn prices means better feedlot economics, which means better calf prices.

As for avoiding the purchase of anything with corn, good luck on that one!
 
You can get a check in the mail if your farm has a "base". Bases can be for wheat, cotton, corn ,soybeans, sugarcane, rice, ect. We are not talking about small amonts of money either some bases are around 50 per acre. You dont have to plant a crop just be able to make your mark on the gov form at the usda office. It is called a direct payment. Then sometimes they will decide to see you another check called a counter cyclical payment. Cha Ching .
Why do they do this? Who does this benefit?
 
denoginnizer":2mgynisc said:
If you do a search on "farm subsidy data base" you can see how much the '' mail box farmers" in different counties are making.
Just go to EWG.ORG.
 
There is many a program here that we could apply for funds to help out with things needed on the farm but, my father-inlaw won't apply for any and says it's no different than someone laying on their a$$ and collecting welfare. His opinion is that the problems with farming today is the government being involved in the process and says he wants no part of the governments help or their money.
 
Texan":29ttukjw said:
Caustic Burno":29ttukjw said:
I will make sure to go out of my way to keep from buying any corn product I don't believe in welfare in any form.
I'm sure you can live without Fritos and corn flakes. But what are you gonna use for hog bait? You've only got so many fingers and you still need them to count with. Be hard to get a trap full of hogs with no more fingers than you've got left. :lol:

Thats exactly what got me to thinking about it as I saw hunters on the lease down the road hauling welfare corn to fill feeders for deer,hogs,coons and such.
Pears work good in a hog trap and I have heard fish heads.
 
jgn":n75a80w0 said:
There is many a program here that we could apply for funds to help out with things needed on the farm but, my father-inlaw won't apply for any and says it's no different than someone laying on their a$$ and collecting welfare. His opinion is that the problems with farming today is the government being involved in the process and says he wants no part of the governments help or their money.
My opinion is, IF you dont apply for the programs that are being offered, someone else will.If the State or USDA has a program available to me that will help us out with equipment or other improvements, I'm going to take advantage of it.
 
Caustic Burno":2i0hbcdq said:
Frankie":2i0hbcdq said:
That subsidized grain keeps feed costs down for feedlots. They can pay more for cattle if they pay less for feed.

Not if we are going to have to make fuel with it.

I will make sure to go out of my way to keep from buying any corn product I don't believe in welfare in any form.
Caustic the feed value is still there I've already went over that.
 
Crowderfarms":1431e1l0 said:
jgn":1431e1l0 said:
There is many a program here that we could apply for funds to help out with things needed on the farm but, my father-inlaw won't apply for any and says it's no different than someone laying on their a$$ and collecting welfare. His opinion is that the problems with farming today is the government being involved in the process and says he wants no part of the governments help or their money.
My opinion is, IF you dont apply for the programs that are being offered, someone else will.If the State or USDA has a program available to me that will help us out with equipment or other improvements, I'm going to take advantage of it.

Crowder on most things I agree with you but on this we will have to disagree. I see this as no different than government housing makes little difference if they built the house or pay to have it built. If you take a government subsidy that money comes from a taxpayer to support you.
I guess I had been living at the end of the road to long found this and several other articles very interesting.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Agriculture/BG1542.cfm
 
Caustic, Some of the programs we have signed up for are: Pasture Renovation, Cross Fences, Waterers,Native Grasses, etc. I used to feel the way you do. Put aside that kind of thoughts, and started checking out various programs.The funds are there for the betterment of our operations.I dont call it being a "Welfare Farmer" Heck, I've paid into the system for quite a few years... this is a way of getting a little bit back and improving my two places, with some help.Remember I'm just a lowly Feed Store owner. :lol:
 
I'll keep feeding at the same trough as Crowder. Some of the fencing and planting practices we've done have gotten us a 75% cost share from the gov. A couple of years ago we even got $17 dollars a head for mature cows for drought relief.

dun
 
Guys no matter how we try to justify this if you are taking money from the government, it cost Americans in tax dollars.
Some one else is footing the bill.

U.S. Farm Subsidies, 1995 through 2003
As we near the end of the costliest decade in the 70-year history of government farm subsidies, a new update to the Environmental Working Group's farm subsidy database finds that taxpayers have spent more than $131 billion on federal farm programs over the past nine years. The total includes $16.4 billion spent during 2003, the fourth highest amount over the nine years and a 27 percent increase over 2002. Surges in disaster payments and commodity subsidies drove the increase, along with a modest expansion in conservation spending (see U.S. subsidy summary).

To put this expenditure in perspective, for the money taxpayers have provided in commodity and disaster subsidies alone over this period (88 percent of the total), not counting $16 billion in conservation payments, we could have bought 25 percent or more of all the farms in 302 counties--land, barns, farmhouses and all. In 47 counties where agriculture exists almost purely by the grace of government, taxpayers could have bought outright half the farms or more for the money we've spent in just the past nine years.

It's not as if the subsidies are 'saving the family farm.' Of the 2,128,982 farms enumerated by the most recent Census of Agriculture, for 2002, only 33 percent received government payments. Two-thirds of the nation's farmers get no subsidy payments whatsoever. For the most part they don't qualify because they grow the 'wrong' things. If you want to see what the wrong things are, stroll through the produce aisle or meat department of your local supermarket. The farmers who produce most of America's food do so without a check from taxpayers.

As the Farm Subsidy Database has documented in the past, the vast majority of the farmers who do receive government subsidy checks get minimal amounts of money. Eighty percent of the recipients between 1995 and 2003 received, on average, $6,918 for the entire period (see table on payment concentration). That comes to $768 a year, just over sixty-five bucks a month. Not much to run a family farm on—though in aggregate, the 2.4 million recipients in this category ended up taking almost $17 billion from taxpayers over 9 years.

Corn subsidies are a good example of the farm subsidy pyramid. In area, corn is the most important crop grown in this country--some 78 million acres have been planted in recent years--and no USDA subsidy program sends taxpayer money to more recipients. Between 1995 and 2003, government records show, 1,438,423 individual farmers, partnerships, corporations, estates and other entities received at least one corn subsidy payment. Yet 80 percent of them collected, on average, just over $4,700 total over the 9 years (see EWG's payment concentration analysis for corn). That's about $529 per year. No American family farm--no business, for that matter--is materially assisted by payments of less than $50 a month. Yet because there are 1.15 million subsidy beneficiaries in this category (the bottom-most 20 percent of recipients), taxpayers paid them $5.5 billion, about 15 percent of total corn subsidies.

The real action is at the top of the farm subsidy food chain, where 10 percent of the recipients—just over 305,023 individuals, partnerships, corporations, estates and myriad other entities—took in 72 percent of the total payments taxpayers provided for conservation, commodity and disaster programs over the 9 years. (That's an upward tick of 1 percent in concentration for the top 10 percent over the eight-year analysis EWG presented last year.) They collected, on average, $309,823 each, roughly $34,000 annually. The elite in this world of government dependency collected even more. The top four percent of recipients, for instance, number just over 122,000. Yet they cost taxpayers about $65 billion over 9 years, which works out to an average of $529,000, or nearly $59,000 per year.

What makes that particular number memorable is that it is almost exactly what the average American household earned in 2003. The average farm household is a different matter. They made significantly more, nearly $10,000 more (16 percent), averaging $68,605. To compound the irony of subsidies as family farm safety net, almost all of the income for the average farm household, 89 percent, came from off-farm sources, the jobs in town or elsewhere that make farm living pencil out for most Americans. It's not just that government subsidies aren't saving the family farm. Not even farming is.

The two categories of subsidies that ostensibly are available to all farmers, even if they grow the 'wrong' things, are conservation programs and disaster aid. While both categories increased in 2003 compared to 2002—disaster aid most strikingly—a different set of inequities plague these forms of assistance (go here for a subsidy summary by year and category).

The public hears a lot of soothing, bi-partisan talk about the vital importance of conservation and protecting the environment whenever it's time to move an ungainly farm subsidy bill through the body politic. But once the flow of commodity payments has been locked in, Congress proceeds in the out years to cut funds from the very conservation programs that provide broader, public interest cover when subsidy bills are under fire. As a consequence, far more farmers perennially apply for conservation programs than existing funds can serve. This "conservation backlog," recently documented by Environmental Defense, is of course made worse when Congress, with the tacit approval of the subsidy lobby, cuts conservation spending instead of commodity programs. In the current fiscal year, for instance, Congress slashed conservation program funds by nearly a half-billion dollars in the omnibus spending measure. Congress also cut $1.9 billion from conservation accounts earlier this fall in order to pay for farm disaster aid.
 
Guess I am with Crowder and Dun, as we are currently in a pasture renovation program. It is funded by the tobacco fund. I don't look at it as welfare, and I am one that does not agree with welfare. This type of program requires you to put out something befrore you get anything.

My uncle was one of the most frugal people I know and he would take any FSA payments he could get. He figured he had paid the money in and was one of the hardest working people iI have ever known. And he did not care for people sitting around on welfare.

Guess if you go to the database and lokk me up I will be there. We have a corn base and we are in the program. They have offered assistance in the past in drought years also.
 
dun":3nmxo00c said:
I'll keep feeding at the same trough as Crowder. Some of the fencing and planting practices we've done have gotten us a 75% cost share from the gov. A couple of years ago we even got $17 dollars a head for mature cows for drought relief.

dun
If 'X' amount of dollars are allocated for spending to help us Cattlemen/Farmers, I'm signing on the dotted line. Man at NCRS told me if more of us would sign up for programs, there would be more Federal dollars available.Several around here try to keep these programs top secret, I got my butt blasted one time at work for telling a feller that had bought a run down place about the cross fence program.Some of these guys think they can get every dollar available.
 
I said this before and I really believe it, If you live in the good old USA you benefit either directly or indirectly from Government Subsidies. As much as I hate them you have take advantage of them to level the playing field.
 
rkm":b8zdzpjm said:
I said this before and I really believe it, If you live in the good old USA you benefit either directly or indirectly from Government Subsidies. As much as I hate them you have take advantage of them to level the playing field.

That is a simple way to put it. If you go to the EWG site and lookup some people in your area, you will see some that don't farm just own. Also the biggest farmers in your area will be the ones with the biggest payments. The little guy has to level the playing field.
 

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