Stretching hay

[cross_7]

We reduced our stocking rate to the point that we feed stockpiled (the cows just graze) fescue until usually sometime in March or maybe April.

Was this based on a financial calculation or something else? I have been stocking heavy and buying in hay - - thinking I was improving the land.

It was based on dollars. Hay was high and the return on calves was way below what the hay cost. One year we fed hay from the binning of june through the following may. Now we put up some hay then graze the hay fields during thefall/winter.

i cut way back after the drought in 06.
i have lots more grass and now i have different winter grasses that i never had before.
i have not fed a bale of hay in two years.
the only problem is i may be under stocked but after 06 i'm still gun shy.

 

[dun]

the only problem is i may be under stocked but after 06 i'm still gun shy.

I'll drink to that!

 

[fargus]

I have been stocking heavy and buying in hay - - thinking I was improving the land.

You may be improving the land but you will not see it until you get rid of some cows.
I lease a pasture that was severely overstocked for over 20 years. After 5 years of under stocking the grass is coming back strong especially where the guy fed hay. The stocking rate is gradually being increased as the grass improves. As I can only get a 1 year lease at a time it is not feasible to make long term monetary improvements.
Feeding hay and other supplements will add nutrients to the soil but is sure sounds like an expensive way to do it.

Not necessarily up here in the northern tier. I can buy cow hay cheaper than I can grow it and bale it myself at least 4 years out of 5. So if you factor in the cost savings on the stored feed you are buying in, and then credit yourself for the fertilizer value of the feed, less what the cows keep, it isn't as expensive as it sounds. The ultimate goal at our place is to cut only enough hay to make our pasture rotation work, and have standing forage the cows can graze into November. Ground conditions will dictate when they come off grass. We would buy the balance of the hay in. I am also open to feeding straw, wheat shorts, corn screenings, etc as a way to lower costs in years when hay is scarce.

 

[rockridgecattle]

North central WV here ....Wintering 11 head and looking for suggestions on best way to stretch the hay farther. We buy all our hay and good sized bales run $30-$35 every year. We can only haul 6 at a time on our trailer so by the time we add in fuel we have over $210 in 6 bales. I can buy a ton of 11% feed for $234 at a local feed store. We grain the cows everyday in winter but it isnt much. Its just to keep them coming to the barn each day instead of exploring the countryside looking for them in the field. I will always keep hay free choice out for them. I am just wanting suggestions on how much feed they would need to put a dent in thier hay consumption and at those prices would i just be better off buying more hay.

Lotu, whether or not you are a hobbiest in it for fun, or a commercial person in it to make a living, the calf still has to pay for the cow.

Without knowing what your hay nutrition is, you could be in for a whole mess of trouble if you cut back feed, if you feed straw, or if you add grain to the ration.
Remember, as a cattle producer, everything you do know will affect the bottom line for two to three and maybe even 5 years.
Why you ask?
Reduced or improper nutrition and too much nutrition can lead to:
1. reduced BCS since the cow will have to use up stores to gain energy
2. a weak calf at birth
3. a weak calf to the plate, unthrifty if you will
4. a calf prone to sickness
5. poor quality colostrum
6. poor quanity colostrum
7. harder calving time since the cow will have no energy to calve
8. harder time to raise the calf since while on grass will have to replace depleted energy reserves
9. poor breed back which in turn will reduce the # of calves next year or poor wean weights

10. IF too much nutrition, you will see a cow that gains weight and adds fat to herself, and she show signs of...
2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,. Instead of trying to regain energy reserves a cow with to much fat will be a low producer of milk, putting the energy into her, and will have problems calving due to to much fat, problems breeding back due to to much fat.

If you find the cost of the hay is to high, reduce the herd and keep only what you can afford...experience talking...

 

[hayrack]

With that amount of cattle and since you do grain them some I would feed small square bales if you can buy them reasonable. You would feed some everyday but there would not be any waste and you could feed them what they needed and not all they wanted. I feed rounds but have squares too so I can stretch the round hay. I have a group of 20 that will eat a round every two days and they get some gin trash and DG every day too. They are getting about 3 pounds per head per day of this. I let the round run out in the evening and I will feed about 5 square bales at that time. In the night they clean up all of the round and I gain 12 hours per round bale by feeding some squares. I also have the place split up in paddocks. I dont let them run in all of them through the winter and when I feed the squares I let them in a new paddock. They like that too and you use some physcology on them. They are like kids. This keeps them cleaning up the hay well and if you get cows to doing that they will not be nearly as wasteful. By gaining a half day every roll it adds up over the winter.

 

[[Bez]]

":2vuomrba]
Cows will eat - so stretching is not what you want to do - but you can put straw out for them as well. Yes - there are possible issues with straw - but old oat straw is their favourite - the more weathered the better.
[Bez]

I tried bale grazing a mix of new oats straw and meadow hay last winter. The meadow hay got cleaned up real well but I still have a lot of year old oats straw. Some bales are black in spots...

Then I went and bought 3 trailer loads of hereford and rwf cows that needed a good home. So I need to stretch my feed too.

How would you bale graze a mix of year old oats straw and 14% protein upland hay?

You answered your own question - new straw - they are not keen on it - older the better and do not ask me why.

If you want to throw it away - burn it in place and watch what they do to the ash you leave behind - bet they lick it up over time - especially if you put a salt block right in the middle of the ashes. Ash and salt - go figure.

Not sure how I would graze it at your place because I do not know your field set up - but at mine I would put them on straw first and hay once the straw was gone.

[Bez]

 

[Stocker Steve]

Not necessarily up here in the northern tier. I can buy cow hay cheaper than I can grow it and bale it myself at least 4 years out of 5. So if you factor in the cost savings on the stored feed you are buying in, and then credit yourself for the fertilizer value of the feed, less what the cows keep, it isn't as expensive as it sounds. The ultimate goal at our place is to cut only enough hay to make our pasture rotation work, and have standing forage the cows can graze into November.

I think hay is relatively cheap is some parts of the northern tier because fewer and fewer folks are willing to run livestock through these winters. We can not graze standing forage in crusty snow, but I think of bale grazing as just a winterized version of the trendy high density mob grazing.

In 2009 I had hay delivered for U$S .023 (grass) to .032 (alfalfa) per pound after deducting some of the fertilizer value. I don't take full credit for fertilizer value because of the variable manure distribution and the high P in my soil. Since you are buying hay in year one, and will only see part of the manure benefit in year two, this is a much slower process than dumping on some chemical N.

I think the issue with this approach is how to handle a dry year(s). I built a 40x64x14 hay shed last year and have also started to have some custom balage made. I have thought about building another hay shed but shipping yearlings early is probably a smarter move...

 

[fargus]

It would depend on the year. Would you make more selling yearlings early, or buying expensive hay and putting a bit more gain on? I agree with not crediting the full fertilizer value too. Fortunately we don't have super high P levels, so I can maybe extract more value from purchased forage.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Would you make more selling yearlings early, or buying expensive hay and putting a bit more gain on?quote]

Depends a lot on where the market is going. Usually there is a premium for yearlings here from late July to late August.
I think if you feed good alfalfa hay, and if the market does not drop, you can make a $, but you are doing more work and increasing your risk level...

 

[mncowboy]

Just be cautious about how much they waste, dont be afraid to make them clean up after themselves without making them go hungry if they have decent body condition. Also just a few pounds of corn screens each day per head will go along way.

 

[hillbillycwo]

We also have always fed a little feed to our cattle, 2-3 times a week of course daily to the bulls and weaning stock. We store ours in old chest type freezers and an old fridge laid on its back. this keeps the critters out and the feed lasts longer in good condition without molding. It stays dry and a few buckets go along way. We don't look for our cows. They look for us when they here the jeep or the four wheelers. It is great. Count them then go find the one that doesn't come up. Lee

 

[Brute 23]

I will take a positive note and assume you are already getting the most out of your hay, your numbers are as low as you want and say that I can see a drop in hay intake on as little as #2 per head / day of ground feed. ;-)

That is my experience. The best thing is do a sample run in you situation and see what you get. See how fast they go thru the hay. Then buy more hay and feed hay & ground feed. See if it stretches longer and compare the costs.

 

[farmgardngirl]

I've only got 4 calves, in the 4-500# range. I feed about a 60# bale of hay per day, plus free cornscreenings. The hay costs is $2.25 per bale, so that cost is about 55 cents per calf a day. Have been feeding less screenings than they could have I'm sure, just to be safe from bloat, etc. The screenings are getting moldy on the outside, so been digging out just the good stuff, and leaving the rest for the birds.
How can screenings be dried, and kept dry? The calves love them, and the price is definately right, but so much is going to waste. In trying to figure the actual expense per calf, I'm wondering how much it's costing us to run the watertank heaters for 6 months of the year.