still possible?

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blacklabel

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Is it still possible for the little guy to make a living with a backgrounding operation? Or starter feedlot? Buying just weaned 350/500# beef calves? I know big operations that make this work on a 20k hd lot. But can it on a 5000hd lot?

Its what i enjoy doing, feeding, doctoring, and working cattle. This is the best solution i can think of.

All advise welcome.

Thanks
 
Hi blacklabel, where are you located. Facilities in place? Raising own feed or buying it. Lots of options you can always take a chance. Keep in touch let us know how you get along.
 
Just thinking out loud. Plan to buy a place this year.

Live in southern MO.

Buying most all feed. Facilities will need built most likely.

None of this scares me just alot of coin needed.
 
blacklabel":1syrsn1e said:
Is it still possible for the little guy to make a living with a backgrounding operation? Or starter feedlot? Buying just weaned 350/500# beef calves? I know big operations that make this work on a 20k hd lot. But can it on a 5000hd lot?

Its what i enjoy doing, feeding, doctoring, and working cattle. This is the best solution i can think of.

All advise welcome.

Thanks

With today's high feed prices, what you are considering will be very difficult. However, if the US makes a decent corn crop this year and feed prices get more reasonable in the fall the economics could get more favorable.

You mentioned you like the day to day working with the cattle but what about buying, selling and risk management. What is your experience in these areas? IMO-the business side of this type operation is every bit, if not more important that the operational side. Most of the disasters I've seen have been due to mismanagement and/or poor judgement in their risk management, both in the buying and/or selling of the cattle and feed. Known of several good cattlemen that went under because of a lack of proper risk management. Some were from unexpected price movements in the cattle others from unexpected movements in feed costs or a combination of each. As volatile as today's markets have become price risk in both the cattle prices and feed prices can break a guy in a heartbeat if not properly managed.

For every person, and every geographic area their are certain "unfair advantages" available to them. You need to figure our what those "unfair advantages" are and how to profit from them. I'm talking about things like cost effective byproduct feeds, sources of undervalued calves (ie, off color, sorting singles into truckload lots, varying sizes, etc). Use your imagination and a lot of out-of-the-box thinking in this area for big rewards.

Bottom line is it can be profitable if managed properly. However, if it were easy there wouldn't be a number of these size yards either vacant or for sale in the plains area.

Do your homework diligently and find a good mentor, banker, and possibly a partner who has strengths in the areas you may be weakest in. Each of us has our own areas of strengths and weakness. You will need employees and partners who have strengths that you may be lacking.

Best wishes.
 
Thank you, lots of good information in that post.

I know i have a buyer for getting me cattle who can also sell for me. I used to feed for him on his 4000 hd operation. I think he would be more then willing to help in any way possible, just financially I'm on my own. As i stated before it takes major coin to operate. Its what I want to do and enjoy, just may take me longer to get there. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
Gain on pasture would be safest / cheapest area to consider. Even renting pasture if any available. Can always work part or all onto feed if it works out ($$$). Hard to hit a home run everytime (hey its baseball season) . Keep trying hope you can find something that works for you.
 
I can guarantee starting with nothing is hard, just cant get a good foot hold. But me and the wife decided to buckle down and live on a fairly tight budget and get with it.
 
While getting there is a great goal, probably not a realistic place to start. I think 500 would be more reasonable, and that may be a bit much. Like everyone that comes on here asking for advice you either have been or will be told you need to find a good team-vet, someone to help with marketing, nutritionist, "evil" banker, part time labor, an understanding wife is probably going to be the most important.

5,000 head is a whale of a place to start, or even end up after several years (decades). You're looking at $3.5 million in just purchase price on the cattle, nevermind facilities, feed, labor, etc. I know that you've said that you understand that, but finding someone to bankroll that is a going to be tough.

My customer that backrounds figures that if he can't show at least a $50/head profit on them before he buys them then he doesn't even try. There is almost always going to be something that pops up that knocks that number down (death loss, extra drugs...), but then a lot of times something works with him and that gets bumped up (lower feed cost, better conversion...). He is growing his own feed, has equipment and has 30+ years of experience doing it.

One last thought in closing, there is a point in every operation and business where one guy just can't do it all himself. Then you start have to hiring help, I think that everyone that has managed people will tell you they would rather manage a monkey poop fight at the zoo most days if given a choice. Did they show up, do they have to leave early, did they have a fight with their husband/wife last night, is their kid sick, and on and on. Depending on how you set it up you might be better off dollar wise and more sane with 2000 head than 5000.
 
Starting @ 5000 was not the plan, more of a goal. A little unrealistic sure, but why dream to small and not push for more.

I know most thee horror stories. Ive been the manager who had to fill in for guys who dont show or leave early. Ive been called @ 10pmthe to come work some cattle. Ive ordered the feed, helped make rations, sold a feed additive called Priority One. Ive workked the 20hr days to get things done.

Seen guys that were borrowing $1.5millon every year to buy cattle go under, and have a pretty good idea why he did.

All this and I still want to try it ON MY OWN. Im currently driving truckk again to build funds. Having my own place and backgrounding/feeding cattle is the dream I've had since i was little just wasted alot of time.

I know its not easy and its gonna mean sacrifice but it will be mine and thats alot.

Thanks for replies.
 
Yes it can work, I run a lot of calves myself, and buy for several others around that make it work to. Where are you in southern MO?
 
Sorry about the Brian Hoover thing :lol2: . Let me know if there is ever anything I can help you with. I buy calves most every week.
 
I too am interested in starting to background some beef cattle. Looking to buy 3 or 4 weights and grow them out for 90-120 days and then reselling them. Length of time I keep them will be soley based on what the market prices are doing. I work full time for a telecommunications company so I'm simply doing this on the side to see if I can make enough money with it in addition to my cow/calf operation to make it worth my while. I have enough pasture to support the calves from spring to fall and bale all my own hay to support them through winter. I plan to start with only 10 head to see how well it goes. I plan to keep them penned up in a small lot for the first two weeks so they can adjust to an electric fence as well as to keep an eye on them in case one gets sick. They will then be put on larger lots of pasture and fed 6 pounds a day of feed bought from the local Co-Op. I hope to make around $200 a head. I know many on here do not think this is possible but my neighbor (who buys all his hay from me) did this last year with 60 head (part time farmer as well) and CLEARED well over $12,000 after feed costs (hay and grain), cost of purchasing calves, medicines, wormer, and the whole nine yards. I plan on following his same business plan. I'll keep you guys updated as to how it goes.
 
tnwalkingred, I do something similar to what you are going to try. I will tell you what I have learned. First, try and get calves that are weaned already.Those milkfat calves go backward for me before they go forward. Also be ready to fight respiratory problems; many calves coming out of salebarns get sick about 5 days after I get them home. I am not sure if your time frame will work; I try to buy in down markets and sell when they are up. Calves I have picked up in Nov and Dec have been some of the most profitable for me. Save all your vaccination receipts,one of the buyers that came to my place wanted copies of the receipts. One last thing,on the calves I throw out in the spring without much supplement,I get way better gains on 450lb and bigger calves than the little 3 and light 4 wts. I think the little guys just arent able to convert the grass as easily as the heavier calves.
 
I'm not really in the stocker business but I buy some every year. Last year I bought in Sept and sold in Jan and made 200/hd with very little weight gain. These were unweaned 6wt heifers.

Did the same thing this year but sold last week and made about 50/hd with a decent weight gain. The big difference was a lower market.

FYI: I had the heifers on grass all winter but no other supplement than mineral.
Like you, I prefer dealing with calves but the risk for me is too high to make stockers the bulk of my operation.
 
It seems like the market prices are definitely going to be a HUGE factor in how profitable the calves are. They seem to be down quite a bit in our area right now. It may not be a good idea to buy some now and sell in late summer. Maybe the western states will finally get some relief from the cold and snow and prices will go back up.
 
Ive always been told you make your money when you buy them.

Your death loss has to be under 5% for it to really work.

We gave calves a shot of Nuflor when we brought them in and this would keep some from getting sick and others would need another round later.

With little cattle you should not be tryin to get them fat just grow them.

Just my 2 pennies
 

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