tiger hunter
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have calfs 3 months old what is the best method of steering them to cut or band.and also what is the best implant to use ? plan to wean and sell 600 lbs.
steer calfs
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ga. prime
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Banding is best. Unless you've been trained with a scalpel. Then maybe scalpel's the best, but I doubt it. Ralgro is best for implants like you're talking about. Unless somebody says different and it's still the best even if they do. Don't let anybody tell you different. 
ga. prime
Well-known member
Two among other May '09 steers I sold last week. Both banded and implanted once with ralgro within 2 weeks of birth. Sale weights 705lb and 770lb. Could've banded them again at 4 or 5 months and gotten more pounds, but I generally only implant once.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Ga Prime I think you typo'd your statement under the pic. No need to band them twice.
Bands at birth work for me.
There have been some that had to be cut. One jewel was up couldn't be brought down. Its rare but happens. Last one was a couple of years ago. We gave him some time but that didn't do it. I had to cut in order to get it down on him. Worst case I had ever seen.
Bands at birth work for me.
There have been some that had to be cut. One jewel was up couldn't be brought down. Its rare but happens. Last one was a couple of years ago. We gave him some time but that didn't do it. I had to cut in order to get it down on him. Worst case I had ever seen.
ga. prime
Well-known member
You're right backhoe! Can't double band one. I meant re-implant at 4-5 months after first implant.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
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I believe cutting is best. Here's some info from Beef Magazine:
"The KSU study looked at seven-weight bulls, half of them knife-cut and half banded. Animals were on feed 28 days after castration. Research looked at dry matter intake (DMI), average daily gain (ADG) and whether the local anesthetic made a performance difference. Each animal's performance was monitored daily and summarized weekly.
In the first week, banded calves had higher DMI and ADG than knife-cut calves. But after the first week, knife-cut calves began eating and gaining more, and it continued from 14-21 days. In fact, banded calves saw decreased performance through day 28.
"There's early pain and stress with the knife cut," Thomson says. "But the pain associated with banding is much more evident at 14-21 days. At 21 days, only 40% of the scrotum had fallen off.
"Overall, the knife-cut calves had DMI of 22 lbs./day, compared to 20 lbs. for banded calves. Knife-cut calves had ADG of 2.6 lbs., compared to 1.7 lbs. for banded calves."
Thus, the added profit of knife-cut calves is about $26/head relative to banded calves. Thomson adds the research showed no performance benefit in calves receiving the local anesthetic, regardless of castration method.
"We need to expand this overall study to where cattle are monitored all the way through closeout," he says.""
full article:
http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_stocke ... index.html
I have other reports that agree.
"The KSU study looked at seven-weight bulls, half of them knife-cut and half banded. Animals were on feed 28 days after castration. Research looked at dry matter intake (DMI), average daily gain (ADG) and whether the local anesthetic made a performance difference. Each animal's performance was monitored daily and summarized weekly.
In the first week, banded calves had higher DMI and ADG than knife-cut calves. But after the first week, knife-cut calves began eating and gaining more, and it continued from 14-21 days. In fact, banded calves saw decreased performance through day 28.
"There's early pain and stress with the knife cut," Thomson says. "But the pain associated with banding is much more evident at 14-21 days. At 21 days, only 40% of the scrotum had fallen off.
"Overall, the knife-cut calves had DMI of 22 lbs./day, compared to 20 lbs. for banded calves. Knife-cut calves had ADG of 2.6 lbs., compared to 1.7 lbs. for banded calves."
Thus, the added profit of knife-cut calves is about $26/head relative to banded calves. Thomson adds the research showed no performance benefit in calves receiving the local anesthetic, regardless of castration method.
"We need to expand this overall study to where cattle are monitored all the way through closeout," he says.""
full article:
http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_stocke ... index.html
I have other reports that agree.
AudieWyoming
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Thank You Jeanne. I tried two times last night to write a legible post about knife cut vs banding. You have covered much clearer than what I came up with. However knife cutting requires better management or at least more cattle husbandary experience. I feel most readers looking for advice on this issue would be better off just banding. Ga.prime covered that very well, so I deleted my attempts.
All I can add is: Band at a young age. Make sure you you have both nuts, Improperly banded calves are the leading cause of bullers and stags in the feedlot.
If there is a better implant for calves than Ralgo I don't know about it. Don't over implant and make sure your cattle are on a good enough plane of nutrition for an implant regimene to benefit. It does not work well for the "starve a dollar out of um" crowd!
All I can add is: Band at a young age. Make sure you you have both nuts, Improperly banded calves are the leading cause of bullers and stags in the feedlot.
If there is a better implant for calves than Ralgo I don't know about it. Don't over implant and make sure your cattle are on a good enough plane of nutrition for an implant regimene to benefit. It does not work well for the "starve a dollar out of um" crowd!
AudieWyoming
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Jeanne,
After rereading your article 700 weights are too big to band IMO. I knife cut most calves at branding leaving just a few potential bull prospects. I late cut those that fail to materialize after two or three months in the grower program. I tried a calicrate type band with tetnus shot for a couple years (cut the bag off after a week) but I have far less problems just cutting them.
After rereading your article 700 weights are too big to band IMO. I knife cut most calves at branding leaving just a few potential bull prospects. I late cut those that fail to materialize after two or three months in the grower program. I tried a calicrate type band with tetnus shot for a couple years (cut the bag off after a week) but I have far less problems just cutting them.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I didn't take the time to find more/better articles. That one does refer to 700# wt calves, but I've read reports comparing all the way from birth to processing and cutting was "less stress" and better gain.
You are sooo right about management. But, it is really easy to learn. Our beef extension has had several clinics teaching the process, and we have a number of producers watch hubby.
Caution: be sure to use TETENUS (sp?) vaccine if you BAND. Also, there are two types of tetenus vaccines. One, you must give a booster PRIOR to cutting. Also, horses/mules/donkeys are the biggest carriers of tetenus. Just had a fellow breeder lose several 800# wt steers to tetenus after banding & vet informed him of that info. He vaccinated at the same time as castration.
I know - I know - there are tons of you out there that have NEVER had a problem. Well, vaccines are cheap compared to losing just ONE - or having to treat just ONE.
You are sooo right about management. But, it is really easy to learn. Our beef extension has had several clinics teaching the process, and we have a number of producers watch hubby.
Caution: be sure to use TETENUS (sp?) vaccine if you BAND. Also, there are two types of tetenus vaccines. One, you must give a booster PRIOR to cutting. Also, horses/mules/donkeys are the biggest carriers of tetenus. Just had a fellow breeder lose several 800# wt steers to tetenus after banding & vet informed him of that info. He vaccinated at the same time as castration.
I know - I know - there are tons of you out there that have NEVER had a problem. Well, vaccines are cheap compared to losing just ONE - or having to treat just ONE.
