just fenced in about 2 acres of new of very unused ( just brushhoged twice a year ) future pasture....it has some shade and some slope..but its close to the barn and does have grass....we are finding spots of alfala, that have been there and just never noticed...not a lot just here and there....it is in s e ohio and was wondering what i could do to promote more.... i have heard its hard to get going....any suggestions that i could use for now till next spring??? thanks jbarl
starting alfalfa
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About the only thing that is difficult about getting alfalfa going is the amount of water that is present. If your rainfall is plentiful, or you have the means to irrigate it, you shouldn't have any problems.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
My husband grows alfalfa and he is here with me watching tv. So let me pick his brain...no it won't hurt 
he says:
gotta be non bloat alfalfa
nitrogen with it...well rotted manure broad cast the seed, harrow and pack. good to go.
he recommends incoculated alfalfa and said again make sure non bloat if for pasture.
husband says if you broadcast and the seed now, put the cows in there and they will push it in the ground. Or you can do it just before freeze up. Come spring put some granualar nitrogen on it.
don't over graze when the plants just come up cause the cows will rip the plants out by the roots.
For the first year best if not to graze untill later on in the summer or fall so they do not rip out the plants.
Asked if his brain hurt...he said NO
he says:
gotta be non bloat alfalfa
nitrogen with it...well rotted manure broad cast the seed, harrow and pack. good to go.
he recommends incoculated alfalfa and said again make sure non bloat if for pasture.
husband says if you broadcast and the seed now, put the cows in there and they will push it in the ground. Or you can do it just before freeze up. Come spring put some granualar nitrogen on it.
don't over graze when the plants just come up cause the cows will rip the plants out by the roots.
For the first year best if not to graze untill later on in the summer or fall so they do not rip out the plants.
Asked if his brain hurt...he said NO
One catch to planting alfalfa is that if there is already any alfalfa in the field it will prevent the new stuff from growing near it. Something about the plant putting something in the soil to restrict competition, the bigger the plant the bigger the area it controls.
have you ever tore out a field of alfalfa and then tried to replant some more there?? well if you did it would never come up because the toxin's that alfalfa put in the soil will just kill the new seed. that is why you go and plant alfalfa and then feed and then you can plant alfalfa again.dun":234pyeic said:
i would do what rockridgecattle said.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Here in Canada the husband said he's never heard of competion like that or toxins from alfalfa. Here it is gerneral practice to rip up alfalfa fields, summer fallow for the field to rest and add nitorgen by tilling in the regrowth or...
in the spring seed with a grain, and till down again and then seed with a nurse crop and alfalfa the following year... and fertilizer!
This would be for hayland though or for alfalfa seed.
For pasture would just broad cast , minimal till to get it established and get the cows back on it.
in the spring seed with a grain, and till down again and then seed with a nurse crop and alfalfa the following year... and fertilizer!
This would be for hayland though or for alfalfa seed.
For pasture would just broad cast , minimal till to get it established and get the cows back on it.
rockridgecattle":1nmbi71b said:
thanks a ton folks....looks like the pasture setup will work for me....got time to broad cast and till...can get cows on it also....how long should i wait to put the cows on it? im not really in a hurry...and its a restart up (may)on a place thats sit for 2 years....ground is not so sweet...but weve got plenty of manure and hay mix from the barn and corral areas in a nice pile so now i now where its going...thanks again all..jbarl
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
husband did it in the spring and the cows pushed it in. Alfalfa only needs a top dressing of soil. To deep and it won't germinate....spread manure and harrow. that is it. He just put the cows in right away after done for a day or so depending on the size of the pasture.
If i remember correctly he did not put the cows in there until the following fall....he might have even cut it so as not to risk the cows pullling out the plants.
that year was real dry and it did not seem like it worked. The following year he let it grow, but we let it grow because we got honey bees and there was lots so he wanted it for the bees that year then cut and then put the cows in.
Now in this pastue the danilions were plentiful. Now the alfalfa is plentiful.
Incoculated alfalfa seed is good. We have used both incocuated and non and incoculated paid.
Remember for pasture non bloat alfalfa
If i remember correctly he did not put the cows in there until the following fall....he might have even cut it so as not to risk the cows pullling out the plants.
that year was real dry and it did not seem like it worked. The following year he let it grow, but we let it grow because we got honey bees and there was lots so he wanted it for the bees that year then cut and then put the cows in.
Now in this pastue the danilions were plentiful. Now the alfalfa is plentiful.
Incoculated alfalfa seed is good. We have used both incocuated and non and incoculated paid.
Remember for pasture non bloat alfalfa
I luv herfrds
Well-known member
Tore up our field last year. Sprayed it to kill everything, full of cheat grass. Tilled it up. Replanted this spring. came up, but has some weeds in it. Hubby didn't put in a nursery crop. Was told to by neighbor. Hope this doesn't hurt it.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
We've seen guys not put in a nurse crop. The seem to do okay. The grow alfalfa seed and it looked short and sparse the year(last year) it came up, but seems ok now
rockridgecattle":2p1ga71o said:
It's called "Autotoxicity", and it can and does kill new seedlings of alfalfa - whether in hayground or pasture. I believe there is another scenario for toxicity as well, but I can't remember what it's called or what triggers it. If memory serves, by waiting a year to replant you will avoid the toxins - but I'm not sure about that.
mnmtranching
Well-known member
Yes, rotate crops.
We're in western Ohio.
Do you have a good stand of grass? The recommendation I'm giving is based on a good stand of grass.
Graze it as needed this year. Spray/clip any weeds that are out of control. Soil test, especially for pH, apply fertilizer as required but skip N. Next spring graze it as close to the ground as possible. In early May pull the cows & drill in your alfalfa. We've used a regular wheat drill with the alfalfa in the small clover seeding boxes. Leave the cows off until the alfalfa is firmly rooted. Graze the grass to get it down to 4 inches. That will probably be the end of June. The alfalfa will outgrow the grass at that point.
We've done that many times with good success. It sounds like you don't have enough alfalfa currently growing to cause an autotoxicity problem with a new seeding. We've used different varieties of alfalfa and now just use the old Vernal. Grazing varieties didn't last any longer than Vernal in pastures for us. Mixed with grass we've never had any bloat problems either.
Another option if you have good soil moisture right now is to soil test, graze close, apply lime/fertilizer(no N) as needed, and get the alfalfa seeded within the next 2 weeks. It can be grazed after it goes dormant, around mid October here. Leave 4 inches stubble through the winter to protect the alfalfa.
Consider splitting the pasture in half and doing part this summer, and the rest next spring. That gives you someplace to put the cows while the alfalfa is getting established.
Some things to keep in mind with this system of seeding, you won't lose production from a well established grass sod while the alfalfa is getting established. The alfalfa will not be the dominate forage, but will provide additional grazing during the summer when cool season grasses slack off. Applying N before and during establishment of the alfalfa will encourage grass growth which competes against the alfalfa growth, you want to give the alfalfa the advantage while it's getting established.
Edited to add: alfalfa grows best in full sun. Don't waste your seed in the shade.
Do you have a good stand of grass? The recommendation I'm giving is based on a good stand of grass.
Graze it as needed this year. Spray/clip any weeds that are out of control. Soil test, especially for pH, apply fertilizer as required but skip N. Next spring graze it as close to the ground as possible. In early May pull the cows & drill in your alfalfa. We've used a regular wheat drill with the alfalfa in the small clover seeding boxes. Leave the cows off until the alfalfa is firmly rooted. Graze the grass to get it down to 4 inches. That will probably be the end of June. The alfalfa will outgrow the grass at that point.
We've done that many times with good success. It sounds like you don't have enough alfalfa currently growing to cause an autotoxicity problem with a new seeding. We've used different varieties of alfalfa and now just use the old Vernal. Grazing varieties didn't last any longer than Vernal in pastures for us. Mixed with grass we've never had any bloat problems either.
Another option if you have good soil moisture right now is to soil test, graze close, apply lime/fertilizer(no N) as needed, and get the alfalfa seeded within the next 2 weeks. It can be grazed after it goes dormant, around mid October here. Leave 4 inches stubble through the winter to protect the alfalfa.
Consider splitting the pasture in half and doing part this summer, and the rest next spring. That gives you someplace to put the cows while the alfalfa is getting established.
Some things to keep in mind with this system of seeding, you won't lose production from a well established grass sod while the alfalfa is getting established. The alfalfa will not be the dominate forage, but will provide additional grazing during the summer when cool season grasses slack off. Applying N before and during establishment of the alfalfa will encourage grass growth which competes against the alfalfa growth, you want to give the alfalfa the advantage while it's getting established.
Edited to add: alfalfa grows best in full sun. Don't waste your seed in the shade.
athens co...s.e tip on river....the ground has never been pastured....just brushhoged.( 8 yrs..)....never needed it for pasture till now...i havnt tested the soil ...... maybe a bit of help for me in that area???....you all have been great..with super ...tire meets the road..advice ...thanks)....but i would have to say this gound is poor/sour.... thanks again..jbarlChris H":zzhyypf8 said:
JbarL":24u1clwa said:
I've been over that way a few times. Without seeing the pasture it's a bit hard to give real good advice. If the cows will eat what's there maybe you should just frost seed red clover in February. Do the soil tests as soon as possible, contact your extension agent to see who does them in the county. Our fertilizer suppliers usually are the cheapest & fastest, county extension agent used to send the to Ohio State, maybe they still do.
If the ground is poor/sour then the clover is a better option than alfalfa for the next year or two. If the cows will eat what's there and you need the forage then you wouldn't be too eager to plow, fertilize, and plant all new seed. Applying fertilizer & lime on top will work but it might need a couple applications of lime for the alfalfa to do good using the interseeding method I first recommended.
It may not be as sour as you suspect if there is some alfalfa in the field. However, are you sure it's alfalfa and not sweet clover?
Chris H is right.
First, Alfalfa won't grow well if your soil ph is less than 6.5. Seeding alfalfa without a soil test is a waste of your time and money. If you have a fertilizer dealer you use regularly then they will have a soil test kit you can use. Around here they will send it to the lab and have it analyzed for free if you buy your fertilizer from them. Alfalfa is also a legume which means it will not use N. The competing grass will.
There is also no such thing as a non bloating Alfalfa. The only legume that is non bloating is Birdsfoot Trefoil. When mixed with grass you shouldn't have bloat problems because cattle won't be eating a high percentage of alfalfa.
First, Alfalfa won't grow well if your soil ph is less than 6.5. Seeding alfalfa without a soil test is a waste of your time and money. If you have a fertilizer dealer you use regularly then they will have a soil test kit you can use. Around here they will send it to the lab and have it analyzed for free if you buy your fertilizer from them. Alfalfa is also a legume which means it will not use N. The competing grass will.
There is also no such thing as a non bloating Alfalfa. The only legume that is non bloating is Birdsfoot Trefoil. When mixed with grass you shouldn't have bloat problems because cattle won't be eating a high percentage of alfalfa.
JbarL":vo0ssn8z said:
If you will talk to your local county extension office, they should be able to provide you with a kit to test your soil, instructions on how to collect the samples, and where to send the collected samples to for testing. Just to hedge my bet, I would also do some research online about how to collect soil samples for a test, as well as available testing laboratories. I hope this helps.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
AC Grazeland BR is a bloat reduced alfalfa. Reduced by 62%.
http://www.wbdc.sk.ca/publications/2001 ... gement.pdf
http://www.swp.com/Seed/pdf/2007SeedGuide_forage.pdf
read up on this. It does not guarantee a complete no bloat but reduces the chance if grazed properly and with other legumes
Key word....grazed properly.
http://www.wbdc.sk.ca/publications/2001 ... gement.pdf
http://www.swp.com/Seed/pdf/2007SeedGuide_forage.pdf
read up on this. It does not guarantee a complete no bloat but reduces the chance if grazed properly and with other legumes
Key word....grazed properly.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
smuff76":208vxo0y said:
Addressed the no bloat already, but husband ask and I quote without out hopefully offending you please
"is he... :roll: " up here we are nitrogen difficient becasue of the alfalfa. Our soils use 11-52 @ 300# to the acre. But with the cost we are lucky to get 100-150# to the acre.
if we want the grasses to grow and slow up the alfalfa we use 11-51-19-6. the alfalfa is now behind the grasses in competition. The grass gets better and the alfalfa is set back
to start a field of grain nurse and alfalfa underseed we use 46-0-0 again at the same ratio if it could be afforded.
http://www.clemson.edu/psapublishing/PA ... rage14.pdf
this web site talks of the why and how alfalfa needs or does not need nitrogen and the reason for incoculated seed.
I learned something new from this web site. So did husband.
