Starting a New Ranch

[Jafruech]

So a little background on me first...When I was growing up we had about 15,000 acres in KS between my Grandpa and Dad, with about 600 head of cattle, corn that we grew for silage, and a little wheat (we also had a little feedlot we finished steers in). I joined the Army, my Grandpa retired and sold most of his land, and my Dad, not knowing if I would get out or stay in sold most of his. Now 10 years later, I'm realizing that ranching is where my heart really lies, and always had. I've always lived in the country and had horses throughout my time in the Army, but I miss raising cattle. I miss the work. I have a newborn son, and I want him to be raised in the same way I was. With that said, I'm now going to have to start from scratch on building up a ranch and I need some advice....I'm deployed overseas right now and I'm trying to decide which state is best for me to get stationed in when I get back to start buying land and building things up. I will probably have to start small with about 100 acres and put a house on it, and buy more as I go. I will probably start by backgrounding steers or heifers with a good grazing management plan until I have enough acreage that I feel like I could start building a good calf/cow operation. I have 11 years left before I could retire from the Army. If I could build things up and replace my current income before that I would probably get out earlier. Here are some states that I'm considering, and my reasons and concerns for each. I would really appreciate feedback on my concerns as well as any info on forage quality, state laws that make it harder/easier on ag, ect.

KS-Manhattan, Marion, Topea, Salina Areas-
Pros-I understand this ecosystem well, and have a lot of networking with local feedlots and ranchers already built up.
Concerns-Chances are I would not be stationed there more that a couple of years and would have to manage things remotely. Wind can be brutal, tornadoes.

C0-Colorado Springs/Pueblo/Canon City area-
Pros-I love the state, the mountains, everything about it. I have some networking already with people out there that wouldn't take much to develop. I could spend quite a bit of time there, and it would be easy for me to get out early and get a civilian Job while I'm buying acreage.
Cons-The crackdown on water rights recently scares me a bit. I want to be able to build a few stock tanks in the low lying areas to catch runoff. The thought of not being able to get approval to have groundwater for my stock is a big concern.

WV/VA-Anywhere within a 2 hour commute to DC or Fort Meade, MD

Pros-I could stay there for the rest of my career, actively manage and grow my operation, and have a retirement paycheck to fall back on.
Concerns-I know absolutely nothing about the ecosystem, forage quality, local market, water availability, ect.

Texas-Central Texas Area

Pros-Wife is from TX, I lived there for several years and know a few people, and understand the ecosystem.
Concerns-Drought, weight gain with the heat(and on a personal note I would miss the cool weather and snow).

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

First of all thank you for your service.

Based on theses scenarios I'd go with Virginia. The old expression "don't quit your day job" comes to mind. Managing an operation remotely stinks. I'm doing that now and a four hour drive one way isn't much fun.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[skyhightree1]

If you come to Va. I suggest you stay close to the northern part im technically a couple hours from dc however traffic can turn a couple hours into 4 hours each way sometimes.

 

[Dave]

I am incline to agree with TT. In Virginia you would have a ready made job to pay the bills while building equity. If it turns out that you don't like the area you can sell out at retirement. Then you take your equity and your retirement and move to an area you would prefer.

In two years, two months, one week, and two days (but who is counting) I will be doing that. There has gotten to be too many people here and I am tired of the constant winter rains. With a retirement income a person can afford to move to an area where there are no jobs. Those are the areas where land is cheaper.

 

[slick4591]

:welcome:

 

[msplmtneer]

:welcome: Thank You for your service!
I would say WV. but I was born and raised there, I moved away in 1986 so I don't know the laws and regulations, but most people will help you once they know and accept you.
Again Thanks for your service :tiphat:

 

[Katpau]

Have you considered Southwestern Oregon? Larger tracts of land are available and relatively cheap compared to most locations you mentioned. Roseburg has a large VA hospital and is very supportive of Veterans. (We support our Veterans is our County Motto). Weather is mild with few extreme hot or cold days. Snow is usually only a short drive up the mountain, while we seldom encounter it in the Valley.

 

[Engler]

What is you "job" in the service? What are the odds that you would/could be sent to who knows where for a period of time? I know that my wife doesn't mind doing chores for a day or two, but I don't think she would be super excited to do them every day for months on end. IF you were to relocate to either KS or TX would/could you be close to either of your families? With little kids having grandma and grandpa within a short drive is priceless sometimes. Additionally having family to help take care of the stock while you are deployed might be an easier sell than a good neighbor. I know that good people are everywhere and you can make friends that are closer than family sometimes, but it takes time.

I know nothing or dang close to it about any of the 4 potential places that you listed as far as farming/ranching, but how many dollars will it take to get set up per animal you could run? I know that if you get aggressive here in Iowa you can get close to an acre per cow, all the sudden taking 10k ground and putting it in to grass doesn't look too bad when compared to somewhere that you need 30 acres of $500 ground to run that same cow. To the same point, if you either get transferred or after retirement decide that you want to relocate what is the resale value of what you build? I would guess that the stuff within 100 miles of DC is going to be the highest by some margin up front, but will probably have the highest value for the long term. I would guess that the market would be softer for the cattle in the VA area vs. others listed for what that matters.

The FSA has programs where vets receive preferred treatment. I know that dealing with them brings in a whole set of other problems, but if you can get money cheaper there than what you can from conventional banks it will help with the bottom line. No matter where you land make friends with the old boys at the coffee shop/feed store/gas station-wherever they go every morning to exchange lies, err information. Many of them are vets and most will probably want to see you succeed. They will have forgotten more about the local lay of the land than what you can learn in 20 years of busting your hump. Learning from their mistakes is a whole lot faster, easier and cheaper than making them yourself.

What do you want to do when you get out of the service? I know that you said CO has options for post military jobs and I would assume that DC would have some as well. I know that a lot of us on here that are weekend farmers/ranchers would love to do it full time but the regular paycheck every 2 weeks allows us to keep the wolves at bay while we try to build something. Last, but certainly not least, what does your wife want to do? As the old saying goes, if momma's not happy, nobody's happy.

Good luck and thanks for what you do for all of us.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I am incline to agree with TT. In Virginia you would have a ready made job to pay the bills while building equity. If it turns out that you don't like the area you can sell out at retirement. Then you take your equity and your retirement and move to an area you would prefer.

In two years, two months, one week, and two days (but who is counting) I will be doing that. There has gotten to be too many people here and I am tired of the constant winter rains. With a retirement income a person can afford to move to an area where there are no jobs. Those are the areas where land is cheaper.

http://www.areavibes.com/cost-of-living-calculator/

 

[Brute 23]

Texas... that's an easy one

 

[SJB]

i do not know, but i would *think* land prices in NOVA, especially for large tracts, would be expensive as compared to Kansas. you didn't say what your budget was, so it may be a non-factor.

 

[Jessica06]

Texas... that's an easy one

+1

 

[Jafruech]

First off, thank you for all the replies. I really appreciate it. I'm quite a few hours ahead over here so it may take me to the next day to respond back. I will try to answer all the questions in this reply. Basically my budget between downpayment and financing for land in CO/TX/KS would be about 100K for the land (Then I can afford to put a decent house on it). Budget for WV and VA would be higher as I would be making about 1K a month more. I will finance the first chunk of land and then roll it into the home loan either at that time or refi it later. Any other land I buy will just be done in cash. I want to have as little operating costs as I can in the end to hedge against bad years.

I haven't considered SW Oregon mainly because there isn't a Post out there that is in need of my job right now (I think JBLM would be the closest out there). I'm on the Military Intelligence side of the house. I have a decent bit of control over where I will be over the next few years, but after that who knows. I know in DC I could stay for the rest of my time. I've also thought about how many I could run with the grass quality. I know the flint hills region of KS has some of the best cattle ground and a good amount of water. Not really sure on how many per acre are being ran in central TX, CO, or VA/WV. Anyone have any idea how many can be ran per acre in those locations with good management and rotation?

As far as the remote management of it if I was reassigned, my parents told me they are looking to downsize out of their house since my younger siblings are finally out of the house, and said they would be happy to move to CO, TX or somewhere close in KS to rent the house and take care of the land/cattle while I was gone. My dad said he misses it a lot anyway. So I at least have a backup plan there, and they could scout out more land for me to buy and take care of the face to face stuff there. My wife works for Groendyke and could transfer to KS, CO or stay at the one in TX, but could also most likely find another job in the DC area easily and commute with me.

I do love Texas, but I guess I have a bit of a jaded view of the environment since every year I lived there it was in drought (May '10-Dec '14), and I don't really know much about the forage quality there. If you guys have some input on running cattle there I would love to hear it.

On the WV side, I would be making the same amount being stationed in DC or FT Mead living there as I would in VA, and I know the property is a lot cheaper from what I've seen. However, from what I have read it seems like they have to truck their cattle out of state to sell as there aren't really the facilities to handle it in WV. If you have any experience buying/selling there I would like to hear that as well as any info on the forage quality. I guess the main thing that holds me back a little on the VA/WV part is that I don't know anything about the area out there. I have been to the rest of the states but I have never been to the east or west coasts.

I'm guessing since no one said CO that it probably isn't a good place to start? Like I said my main concerns would be getting water rights to have a stock tank or well and of course forage quality. I never realized how much the forage quality and cattle you can run per acre varied until I talked to a guy who has an operation in AZ. Crazy ammount of land needed out there.

I may be able to afford to pay more for land in VA, but that also means I would have to make more as well and the cost of buying additional land to add on would be a lot harder when it is coming out of my pocket (off subject it would stink traveling through MD/DC since they don't honor my TX CHL).

Thank you again for all of the feedback. If you guys have any info about cattle per acre, forage quality, and climate of those places or any other feedback I'd like to hear it as well. And by the way, I appreciate the thank you's for my service. That's not something I take for granted ever.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The farther you get from the center of the country the lower your price will be for your cattle.
The major feedlots are in the corn belt and we pay for the trucking to get them there
with lower prices. Same goes for slaughter cows the longer their standing time in a truck to
the kill plant the lower the price.
Last stats I looked at the S/E USA takes the biggest hit.

 

[Rafter S]

All I know about is my immediate area, which is about a 1 hour drive northwest of Houston. That $100,000 would probably get you 7-8 acres here, but considerably more within an hour's drive north or west. And you can generally run one cow-calf pair for every 3 acres. You can run more cows per acre farther east, and less as you go west.

 

[Dave]

I have never lived in any of the areas you mention but I have been through all of them at one time or another. So I will tell you about my area and things to consider. JBLM is just up the road about an hour from my place. Farmland in good size chucks runs about $4,500-5,000 an acre. If you get closer to JBLM that price will go up. We do grow good grass so with good grass management you can run a pair on about 2 acres and that is counting hay. Most ranches I see advertised for sale in the PNW run about $10,000 per pair. Now that is the asking price and those ranches that the real estate people choose to advertise. There is undoubtly places that are cheaper. It is pretty tough to make a living and pay a mortgage at $10,000 a pair. So an outside source of income will be important. As I said in an earlier post the farther you get from areas of good employment the more affordable ranches become.

 

[CottageFarm]

CO - Pretty much forget it. Prices never went down that much in the crash. The Springs took some of the hardest hits, but its recovering now too. Yes, there are some decent DOD contract jobs available, but there are also a lot of retirees from Carson and Peterson that want to stay there, so there's pretty heavy competition for those jobs. Canon, is nice and everybody else knows it, too. Pueblo...not so much so
Not just the land that's expensive either. Cost is higher for everything in that state, and water is becoming a really serious issue.
Where there is water available, the land is high, and its still a big IF on finding water shares to buy or lease.
Dry areas are cheaper, but then getting some source of water can be tough. They don't make it easy to put in a tank, and even if you have them, there's no guarantee it'll fill when you need it.

Central TX - Land is very reasonable. Having family nearby is priceless! Everything seems to cost less here than it did in CO! You get used to the lack of snow in a hurry. It becomes less appealing as you get older, anyway. Take my word on this! It does still get pretty darn cold, here!


KS - Don't know much about, but you do. Again, family nearby is priceless!

My :2cents:

 

[Caustic Burno]

All I know about is my immediate area, which is about a 1 hour drive northwest of Houston. That $100,000 would probably get you 7-8 acres here, but considerably more within an hour's drive north or west. And you can generally run one cow-calf pair for every 3 acres. You can run more cows per acre farther east, and less as you go west.

Get about 25 acres of pasture here 33-35 of cut over pine plantation.

 

[SJB]

$100k here would buy you about 10-15 acres.

 

[Rafter S]

All I know about is my immediate area, which is about a 1 hour drive northwest of Houston. That $100,000 would probably get you 7-8 acres here, but considerably more within an hour's drive north or west. And you can generally run one cow-calf pair for every 3 acres. You can run more cows per acre farther east, and less as you go west.

Get about 25 acres of pasture here 33-35 of cut over pine plantation.

I'm right between Houston and Bryan/College Station. Land prices just keep going up and up. The time may come that if I want to keep having cattle I'll need to move. If that happens maybe I should consider heading to the Piney Woods.