Something is Brewing

[CreekAngus]

Branded.....seed stock is a reputation business, whether you sell registered or commercial seed stock. You buy SAV on reputation, a very good reputation. There are expectations you have when you use their genetics. Herbster has bought several bulls from SAV, partly I'm sure on reputation. You may say no, it's based on genetics, but those genetics have a prefix and reputation. My cattle I have, all bought based on reputation of the breeders, if it wasn't for their reputation I would have just bought any registered angus, but the one's I have, came with a specific prefix and name. And you are looking to one day have a reputation in Kentucky that supersedes all other breeders. You want to be in a place where Creek, wants to buy a Branded Fancy May, because gosh darn it I want that cow family from that breeder.

 

[CreekAngus]

Birth weight weaning weight yearling weight and phenotype and word of mouth sells more bulls to commercial cattle producers than any thing else.

No it doesn't...didn't you see Branded's post? It's all the other numbers, you know the one's clear over on the right side columns most of us forget are there. (presented tongue in cheek)

 

[CreekAngus]

How quickly Branded forgets that he was just talking about selling "junk" bulls with no BSE or papers.

You know I only poke you about that cuz you don't think your poo poo stinks. When you pride yourself in the best of the best but sell your top of the line bulls on Craigslist for $2500 and I can sell a commercial for $3400 (that can be backed up on the auction site online).... I have to give you grief.

I have obtained more PB's in the last 2 years than you have built in the last 50. I'm now increasing my herd even more because I can sell embryos for $1200 off a cow I bought for $2600. If I sold every one of her embryos, I'd have acquired over 100k but we're putting many of them in recips this year. I have a bull that has more orders for semen than I can even provide right now cuz Mr One Pump Chump doesn't like this cold weather.

But I'm not on here telling everyone else how to do it. I'm here learning every thing I can from people who've been in this industry a lot longer than I have been.

When Charles Herbster gets back from Mexico, he's PERSONALLY delivering semen we ordered. Tell me your name again? I didn't quite hear you? *mic drop*

One pump chump......Ha Ha What bull is he bringing you?

 

[Rydero]

You are trying to paint my operation as insensitive. I spent plenty of time with tire kickers, and big talkers. Never disrespected them, even though I knew deep down they were never going to buy anything. Truth is, they didn't have a clue what they really wanted. They were all over the place.

Like I said, nothing has been returned, that's speaks volumes.

I'm certainly not. As someone who buys bulls I'm telling you how you've painted your operation from my perspective from what I can gather on here. If you talk in person like you talk on here I wonder how many of those tire kicker big talkers who you deep down knew weren't going to buy just decided they wouldn't want to buy a bull from you or didn't like what they heard or saw? How would you know? Maybe they can sense you looking down on them from that high horse and figure they'll spend their money somewhere else.

 

[NEFarmwife]

We raise Herefords as that is what we like, I like a good Angus bull, they have good muscle on them usually. We register ours and try to pair proven genetics. We promote those genetics when selling. But i'll be quite honest, we sell more bulls to people who could care less what's back there and buy based on how he himself looks and the fact that I can say "his momma is right over there" and have them like the looks of his mom as well. With that being said, I believe that commercial cattlemen with good reputations attract more potential buyers than those who number crunch and promote simply based on related to the "top selling bull". In my area there seems to be a lot more commercial buyers than registered buyers, but because of reputation, we are able to sell bulls for a fair price because people like their looks and how they think they would match up with their cattle. Just my 2 cents.

Could not have said it better. One thing our customers truly appreciate is knowing what and how we feed our cattle. They know the bull they're buying, wasn't overfed to make him look good. They know that bad temperament will take their nuts. That we won't sell anything, we wouldn't buy ourselves. In fact, a PB we had in our sale, we didn't even want him next to our commercial cuz it made him look bad. He was off a pair we bought last spring. And guess what? We brought him home. He no-saled.

 

[Dave]

I ran into the neighbor at the post office. He said his dad bought 7 bulls at Thomas Angus sale Tuesday. Three were fall yearlings and four spring yearlings. The average price he told me was about $700 a head under the sale average. I don't know which ones he bought but I didn't see a bull there who wouldn't work out. They sold 199 bulls that day. Every auction you can go to, if it is the local weekly sale or a high powered breeder sale, has over priced cattle and steals. One just needs to have an eye for cattle and discipline to know when to bid and when to sit on your hands.

 

[Redgully]

How quickly Branded forgets that he was just talking about selling "junk" bulls with no BSE or papers.

You know I only poke you about that cuz you don't think your poo poo stinks. When you pride yourself in the best of the best but sell your top of the line bulls on Craigslist for $2500 and I can sell a commercial for $3400 (that can be backed up on the auction site online).... I have to give you grief.

I have obtained more PB's in the last 2 years than you have built in the last 50. I'm now increasing my herd even more because I can sell embryos for $1200 off a cow I bought for $2600. If I sold every one of her embryos, I'd have acquired over 100k but we're putting many of them in recips this year. I have a bull that has more orders for semen than I can even provide right now cuz Mr One Pump Chump doesn't like this cold weather.

But I'm not on here telling everyone else how to do it. I'm here learning every thing I can from people who've been in this industry a lot longer than I have been.

When Charles Herbster gets back from Mexico, he's PERSONALLY delivering semen we ordered. Tell me your name again? I didn't quite hear you? *mic drop*

BOOM!

 

[fhug]

And reputation is a huge deal, if you sell them a bull and he does wonders, they come back, not caring what pedigree your giving them, they just want the performance they got from the last one.

If you are in this business long enough, this is the case 90% of the time. It is the repeat customers that keep you in business, especially if you are marketing bulls and heifers to the commercial folks. For us, it is the same for the people who run 400 cows down to the couple who have 25 cows.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Branded, you have a great knowledge of epds and parentage, and how to breed for the best numbers, and name.
But earlier you mentioned that when buying an animal you should look at "How good is the phenotype" of the animal you are going to buy.
Could you please give a more in-depth analysis on what good phenotype is, and it's over all effect on cattle profitability?

 

[WalnutCrest]

This is a fascinating discussion.

The most profitable heifers / cows will be sired by a bull out of a top cow.

A top cow is a cow who breeds up at 12-15 months -- AND -- calves w/o help -- AND -- rebreeds to deliver her second calf by her 3rd birthday ... AND ... does all of this with a good attitude.

A top bull will be the one with the highest maturity (not necessarily the absolute largest / heaviest) bull as a yearling who is also out of a cow who calved at 2+3.

Most of the rest of this is noise.

Our job as a breeder is to accelerate natural selection --- as soon as the breeder and their ego become more important than cattle raised on the ranch, the operation starts to slide down hill. Our job is to observe nature and hit the gas pedal!

 

[Redgully]

This is a fascinating discussion.

The most profitable heifers / cows will be sired by a bull out of a top cow.

A top cow is a cow who breeds up at 12-15 months -- AND -- calves w/o help -- AND -- rebreeds to deliver her second calf by her 3rd birthday ... AND ... does all of this with a good attitude.

A top bull will be the one with the highest maturity (not necessarily the absolute largest / heaviest) bull as a yearling who is also out of a cow who calved at 2+3.

Most of the rest of this is noise.

Our job as a breeder is to accelerate natural selection --- as soon as the breeder and their ego become more important than cattle raised on the ranch, the operation starts to slide down hill. Our job is to observe nature and hit the gas pedal!

Very well said, good healthy productive cow families with the runs on the board win every time. I have a cow line here that has the best epd in the business, and a cow family that is unremarkable in the epd side of things. The unremarkable cow and her whole line are money makers, the high epd line raise fine calves, but are a step behind in little things here and there that they end up with one or two calves less over their lifetime. Feed efficiency is a biggy and gets overlooked a lot.

 

[plumber_greg]

Walnut,
I wish I liked your breed of cattle, I always liked what you had to say about breeding them. GS

 

[gizmom]

How quickly Branded forgets that he was just talking about selling "junk" bulls with no BSE or papers.

You know I only poke you about that cuz you don't think your poo poo stinks. When you pride yourself in the best of the best but sell your top of the line bulls on Craigslist for $2500 and I can sell a commercial for $3400 (that can be backed up on the auction site online).... I have to give you grief.

I have obtained more PB's in the last 2 years than you have built in the last 50. I'm now increasing my herd even more because I can sell embryos for $1200 off a cow I bought for $2600. If I sold every one of her embryos, I'd have acquired over 100k but we're putting many of them in recips this year. I have a bull that has more orders for semen than I can even provide right now cuz Mr One Pump Chump doesn't like this cold weather.

But I'm not on here telling everyone else how to do it. I'm here learning every thing I can from people who've been in this industry a lot longer than I have been.

When Charles Herbster gets back from Mexico, he's PERSONALLY delivering semen we ordered. Tell me your name again? I didn't quite hear you? *mic drop*

One Pump Chump - I am going to have to remember that one!

Gizmom

 

[CattleMan1920]

How quickly Branded forgets that he was just talking about selling "junk" bulls with no BSE or papers.

You know I only poke you about that cuz you don't think your poo poo stinks. When you pride yourself in the best of the best but sell your top of the line bulls on Craigslist for $2500 and I can sell a commercial for $3400 (that can be backed up on the auction site online).... I have to give you grief.

I have obtained more PB's in the last 2 years than you have built in the last 50. I'm now increasing my herd even more because I can sell embryos for $1200 off a cow I bought for $2600. If I sold every one of her embryos, I'd have acquired over 100k but we're putting many of them in recips this year. I have a bull that has more orders for semen than I can even provide right now cuz Mr One Pump Chump doesn't like this cold weather.

But I'm not on here telling everyone else how to do it. I'm here learning every thing I can from people who've been in this industry a lot longer than I have been.

When Charles Herbster gets back from Mexico, he's PERSONALLY delivering semen we ordered. Tell me your name again? I didn't quite hear you? *mic drop*

I still don't understand the personal attacks, there is something more to the story as to why you say what you do about our operation.

Secondly, knowing as much as you do about Angus, AI, and ET, it makes no sense why you don't run a registered herd. It's only $7 to register an animal and if you are such a rockstar with commercial, imagine what you would be as a seed stock producer, especially given that you have a "Big Reputation"

Lastly, I thought it was really tacky to mention someone's travel schedule and how this certain someone is personally delivering semen to you as if they are somehow serving you, as if you are so special. I'm sure he appreciates that you told the world where he has been traveling to and from. I would have never shared that with anyone.

If you truly buy 500 straws of semen a year, I could almost assure everyone here you pay the deeply discounted commercial rate with volume discount and then on top of that you don't pay for certificates. Let's tell everyone how it really is, you aren't ballin that big are you?

You might have, as I said before a "Big Reputation" but without those papers and a DNA test why would someone use your bulls who was in the registered business? If i bought one of your bulls and started using it, I couldn't register the progeny or be able to accurately know what's in the bloodline. What good is that to me?

The whole purpose of a registered animal is to know what's in the blood, throw in stacked DNA tests, and genetic bundle test on top and the picture gets even more accurate. I don't get that picture with you, all I get is "trust me, it's all good" and "your buying reputation, which is secondary to pedigree and confirmed parentage.

For someone that is trying to learn, you sure talk like you have it all figured out.

I was warned at how nasty this business can be, and how competitive, I'm getting a good taste of that with you. I think it's more like you don't want any competition. When you made your snide remarks about our new Elation calves, that told me a lot about you. Ron and others congratulated me privately, you on the other hand searched Square B's Facebook page and had to make a spectacle of things. Who does that?

 

[Bright Raven]

I walk a different path than Branded:

1. Different breed
2. Not going in the 2000 pound cow direction
3. Like the CAIP program and use it
4. Believe in the "fake meat" concept
5. Use more trusted genetics rather than being a pioneer

But I don't really care what others do. We all just burn the candle until the flame goes out. I don't understand the nature of the banter on some of these threads.

In regard to some of Branded's calves, he has been sharing them with me on messenger. I have never met Brook. I will say his calves are outstanding. They have the mass and muscle of Simmentals.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You are trying to paint my operation as insensitive. I spent plenty of time with tire kickers, and big talkers. Never disrespected them, even though I knew deep down they were never going to buy anything. Truth is, they didn't have a clue what they really wanted. They were all over the place.

Like I said, nothing has been returned, that's speaks volumes.

I'm certainly not. As someone who buys bulls I'm telling you how you've painted your operation from my perspective from what I can gather on here. If you talk in person like you talk on here I wonder how many of those tire kicker big talkers who you deep down knew weren't going to buy just decided they wouldn't want to buy a bull from you or didn't like what they heard or saw? How would you know? Maybe they can sense you looking down on them from that high horse and figure they'll spend their money somewhere else.

I thought I've told you before. If I don't have what someone is looking for I help them find it. I have sent buyers to Boyd or Stone Gate. I can almost bet my life that those operations have not done the same for me. It's definitely a one way street.

When I didn't have heifers available for a buyer, I wrote down the numbers of 3 operations and handed it to them, and said "call me if you want me to give you my opinion on what you find"

Not too long ago, I spent an entire afternoon with a lady showing her available bulls, the dams, the sire, went over their epds line for line. Hours were spent. She decided not to buy, why you ask? She saw the sire of some of the bulls we had available and said "if they turn out like him, they will be too big for my cows and break them down" I disagreed, but told her I understood her concern. We had an amicable conversation and I told her if she needed anything to feel free to call me.

You have the wrong picture of how I treat people. When someone has a serious interest in our cattle I'm all ears and work with them any way I can, but when someone calls looking for a $1200 bull, well like anyone that values their time, I say we don't have anything at that price and wish them well, I don't disrespect them.

I would like a new Mercedes, but I know I won't buy it for $15k, I wouldn't even think of offering the dealership that amount for a new car. Why is it ok with registered cattle?

 

[CattleMan1920]

I walk a different path than Branded:

1. Different breed
2. Not going in the 2000 pound cow direction
3. Like the CAIP program and use it
4. Believe in the "fake meat" concept
5. Use more trusted genetics rather than being a pioneer

But I don't really care what others do. We all just burn the candle until the flame goes out. I don't understand the nature of the banter on some of these threads.

In regard to some of Branded's calves, he has been sharing them with me on messenger. I have never met Brook. I will say his calves are outstanding. They have the mass and muscle of Simmentals.

Thank you Ron, but CT members think we are siblings and even if they were standing beside those calves in the barn they wouldn't dare admit what you said above. 9 out of 10 would say "I've seen FAR better elsewhere"

Why do you think I send them to you privately? Nobody gives a sh.t how nice they are. So why bother posting pics?

What I thought I liked about the cattle business was that the cattle themselves were the main attraction not the person breeding them. People like NEFarmWife see it differently. You could have an Elation daughter bred to VAR Power Play, get a daughter and then cross back to America and she would say "yawn, my commercial bull is far better, why, because I say so, that's why"

I think one's cattle should speak for themselves, without the puffery and drama.

You either have something real under the hood or you have a loud muffler and a 4 cylinder if you know what I mean. You like a nice bottle of wine, right? Two buck Chuck is not a French Bordeaux no matter how much you tell yourself that it is, it simply tastes different. Same with a White Castle versus a juicy ribeye.....they are just completely different. The same goes for cattle. For you Bourbon drinkers out there, you have your $10 bottle of bourbon and then you have Pappy. There's a big difference between the two.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Like most things a good bourbon is made better by whats left out than whats put in.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Like most things a good bourbon is made better by whats left out than whats put in.

Somewhat agree, but garbage in equals garbage out. A fine meal takes quality ingredients.

Good crops take good soil, and so on.

What goes into a product matters, do you want Snap On or Harbor Freight at the end of the day? Most people know which of the two hold up over the test of time. It's jusr are you willing to swallow the extra cost for the quality. Most people won't.

 

[NEFarmwife]

How quickly Branded forgets that he was just talking about selling "junk" bulls with no BSE or papers.

You know I only poke you about that cuz you don't think your poo poo stinks. When you pride yourself in the best of the best but sell your top of the line bulls on Craigslist for $2500 and I can sell a commercial for $3400 (that can be backed up on the auction site online).... I have to give you grief.

I have obtained more PB's in the last 2 years than you have built in the last 50. I'm now increasing my herd even more because I can sell embryos for $1200 off a cow I bought for $2600. If I sold every one of her embryos, I'd have acquired over 100k but we're putting many of them in recips this year. I have a bull that has more orders for semen than I can even provide right now cuz Mr One Pump Chump doesn't like this cold weather.

But I'm not on here telling everyone else how to do it. I'm here learning every thing I can from people who've been in this industry a lot longer than I have been.

When Charles Herbster gets back from Mexico, he's PERSONALLY delivering semen we ordered. Tell me your name again? I didn't quite hear you? *mic drop*

I still don't understand the personal attacks, there is something more to the story as to why you say what you do about our operation.

Secondly, knowing as much as you do about Angus, AI, and ET, it makes no sense why you don't run a registered herd. It's only $7 to register an animal and if you are such a rockstar with commercial, imagine what you would be as a seed stock producer, especially given that you have a "Big Reputation"

Lastly, I thought it was really tacky to mention someone's travel schedule and how this certain someone is personally delivering semen to you as if they are somehow serving you, as if you are so special. I'm sure he appreciates that you told the world where he has been traveling to and from. I would have never shared that with anyone.

If you truly buy 500 straws of semen a year, I could almost assure everyone here you pay the deeply discounted commercial rate with volume discount and then on top of that you don't pay for certificates. Let's tell everyone how it really is, you aren't ballin that big are you?

You might have, as I said before a "Big Reputation" but without those papers and a DNA test why would someone use your bulls who was in the registered business? If i bought one of your bulls and started using it, I couldn't register the progeny or be able to accurately know what's in the bloodline. What good is that to me?

The whole purpose of a registered animal is to know what's in the blood, throw in stacked DNA tests, and genetic bundle test on top and the picture gets even more accurate. I don't get that picture with you, all I get is "trust me, it's all good" and "your buying reputation, which is secondary to pedigree and confirmed parentage.

For someone that is trying to learn, you sure talk like you have it all figured out.

I was warned at how nasty this business can be, and how competitive, I'm getting a good taste of that with you. I think it's more like you don't want any competition. When you made your snide remarks about our new Elation calves, that told me a lot about you. Ron and others congratulated me privately, you on the other hand searched Square B's Facebook page and had to make a spectacle of things. Who does that?

We run a registered herd. We do blood test. Our money is in commercial. Cattlemen need a bull that'll produce good offspring that'll make them money when they sell. We AI our commercial herd too.

I didn't search Square Bs page, I happen to follow them and knew instantly on the 5 page write up, it was you.

Herbster being in Mexico is no secret, he's there on business. Wanting you to shut up. We're tired of hearing how great you are, from you. You drop names like you're something. You are not.

Mr One Pump Chump has 20 EPDs in the top 25%. Only 46 registered bulls can do that according to the Angus Association report. Only 4 others can even get close to his percentages if I really wanted to make them compete with his numbers. As Mc Hammer said, you can't touch it.