Some advice on fertilizer needed

[cowsrus]

I would like to know if it would benefit me to fertilize a hay meadow/pasture that is mostly native. The soil test indicated that no lime was needed, but it was a little low on P & K. They don't test for N because they base your N on what yield you want. I know bermuda would benefit, but i wasn't sure whether a native grass would. Our Ext agent is pretty green or i would ask him about it. It costs a lot to fertilize and i don't want to be wasting my money.

 

[ga.prime]

Fertilizer will make anything grow. That's why they call it fertilizer. If you told the soil testers what kind of grass you were growing (and I don't know how they could make a reccomendation otherwise) then you have to trust that they know what they're talking about. Why else even do the soil test?

 

[cowsrus]

Ok, guess it was a pretty stupid question, but i,m trying to convince myself to spend the money and do it.

 

[agmantoo]

cowsrus

What legume plants do you have that contribute nutrients to the grasses? At one time I was on a self imposed plan to invest 25% of the gross income from the sale of my feeder calves in fertilizer that would be applied to the paddocks that produced the calves. As fertilizer prices continued upward and I keep getting less and less fertilizer for the money spent I got annoyed and said to heck with this and I stopped using commercial fertilizer. My plan was to reduce the head count of the brood cows if I could not provide adequate forage without commercial fertilizer. I managed to arrange to get the litter from a single poultry house. This litter was only enough to apply to 20% of the pasture per year. With me doing rotational grazing I was getting the manure from the herd well distributed and I was dragging a harrow following the cattle. I was planting clover all along also. Well, believe it or not, the grass did not die off nor did the cattle go hungry. I live in zone 7 and I manage to do the rotational grazing year round and by stockpiling grass I manage to get through the entire year, barring a major drought, without feeding any hay. I have not bought any commercial fertilizer now for 3 years and I do not intend to buy any. I had the farm soil tested for inputs needed to grow grass and done was required. This change has saved me thousands of dollars with no known negative consequences. PS....I never turn the soil as I feel the carbon layer on top is where the nutrients are and I do not want to dilute those with the underlying soil. My rolling hills farm was a worn out farm from years past when lack of care and erosion took its toll. Here is a pic taken a few days ago as we emerge from Winter

 

[1982vett]

Sure you can fertilize native grasses....However....Some grasses will outgrow other grasses and choke them out. If you have a mix of natives, someone (or more) is going to loose over the long run.

 

[cowsrus]

cowsrus

What legume plants do you have that contribute nutrients to the grasses? At one time I was on a self imposed plan to invest 25% of the gross income from the sale of my feeder calves in fertilizer that would be applied to the paddocks that produced the calves. As fertilizer prices continued upward and I keep getting less and less fertilizer for the money spent I got annoyed and said to heck with this and I stopped using commercial fertilizer. My plan was to reduce the head count of the brood cows if I could not provide adequate forage without commercial fertilizer. I managed to arrange to get the litter from a single poultry house. This litter was only enough to apply to 20% of the pasture per year. With me doing rotational grazing I was getting the manure from the herd well distributed and I was dragging a harrow following the cattle. I was planting clover all along also. Well, believe it or not, the grass did not die off nor did the cattle go hungry. I live in zone 7 and I manage to do the rotational grazing year round and by stockpiling grass I manage to get through the entire year, barring a major drought, without feeding any hay. I have not bought any commercial fertilizer now for 3 years and I do not intend to buy any. I had the farm soil tested for inputs needed to grow grass and done was required. This change has saved me thousands of dollars with no known negative consequences. PS....I never turn the soil as I feel the carbon layer on top is where the nutrients are and I do not want to dilute those with the underlying soil. My rolling hills farm was a worn out farm from years past when lack of care and erosion took its toll.

I like your way of thinking, i'm in the process since last year of trying to get red clover and lespedeza going, thats one reason i was wanting to fertilze.

 

[agmantoo]

I worked this paddock last Saturday to spread the manure on the right side of the small partition fence. This paddock was woods, trash trees, 4 years ago. It received lime the first year and some commercial fertilizer when I first seeded. Then 3 years ago the area got some chicken litter and clover seed. Since starting to graze the area 2 years ago it has only received an additional variety of clover (Alice) and the cattle droppings. As I stated previously I am in the habit of spreading the manure to keep the nutrients uniform. Here it is now, yesterday.

 

[Brute 23]

I wonder the same thing. The question is... is the grass growth from fertilizer worth the cost?

The manure and dragging deal is great and all but you are talking lots of time and wear and tear on equipment. What is it costing to get it hauled to the pasture and put out?

 

[agmantoo]

Brute 23

I do rotational grazing and the cattle delivery the manure at no charge : ) I pull a worn out 18 ft wide drag harrow with a 50 HP diesel tractor in 5th gear and it is fuel efficient. Since I no longer make hay my fuel and equipment expense is minimal. I am a low cost producer of feeder calves. Yes, IMO it is very much worth what I do.

 

[Brute 23]

If you are getting the manure for free its alot easier to see how it pays. Thanks

 

[cowsrus]

Brute 23

I do rotational grazing and the cattle delivery the manure at no charge : ) I pull a worn out 18 ft wide drag harrow with a 50 HP diesel tractor in 5th gear and it is fuel efficient. Since I no longer make hay my fuel and equipment expense is minimal. I am a low cost producer of feeder calves. Yes, IMO it is very much worth what I do.

Do you use a spike tooth harrow? I was looking at an 18' spring tooth harrow, but i didn't know how well it would work for spreading out manure.

 

[novaman]

I don't have a clue how native grasses are in the southern part of the country. Around here it not recommended to do much fertilizing of natives because in the long run it doesn't pay. I was told the fertilizer will result in more growth but it typically is a fast growth and the cows can't keep up with grazing it. Then there is a drop off in growth. Basically, there isn't a significant increase in pounds produced, it just speeds up the growth. Like I said this is for natives in this area. Could be totally different in OK or TX.

 

[Poundsy]

6-24-24 @ about 50-70 lbs to the acre, I don't overdue it. This is a red clover/fescue mix and in Indiana. I do it because I cut and bale the side pastures and I want that grass to grow fast and get in the barn in time so I can run my rotational grazing by June1. If not sometimes it is July before I can turn cows out in it. This pressures the main pasture too much. $550/ton and in my mind is money well spent compared to buying hay. Actually just bought 3 ton I am planning on spreading this weekend since it is finally dry enough and getting warm.

 

[novatech]

I would like to know if it would benefit me to fertilize a hay meadow/pasture that is mostly native. The soil test indicated that no lime was needed, but it was a little low on P & K. They don't test for N because they base your N on what yield you want. I know bermuda would benefit, but i wasn't sure whether a native grass would. Our Ext agent is pretty green or i would ask him about it. It costs a lot to fertilize and i don't want to be wasting my money.

Doesn't make any difference what you grow. If it is alive it has to eat. P&K should be applied as per soil test. For hay most natives will do well with 60 lbs N per year. For hay this should be done as per soil test every year. As for pasture, start off the same. If you can get the legumes growing and manage the pasture well then you could possibly never fertilize again and cut your hay requirements.
Pasture rotation is a key element in pasture/soil improvement, and it does not happen over night.

 

[agmantoo]

cowsrus

The harrow I use was purchased for $75 and it had a nearly new log chain attached for the tongue that was worth most of the price. It was a spike type harrow once upon a time but now it is more of a stub harrow. Some previous owner did modify the harrow to add a 3 inch pipe to affix the 3 sections to for alignment and to act as a heavy duty tongue. I had a chain harrow previously and it was just marginally OK. With the spike harrow having the spikes worn the horizontal bars are down to where they burst the manure patties and scatter them. I can scatter about 4 acres per hour so the task moves along well enough to suit me. I scatter the manure for the obvious reasons such as keeping the fertility uniform, to get the cattle to graze the complete paddocks and to reduce fly reproduction. I also use the tool get some seed coverage when I broadcast seed or where the cattle pats contain seed.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I would like to know if it would benefit me to fertilize a hay meadow/pasture that is mostly native. The soil test indicated that no lime was needed, but it was a little low on P & K.

One key point is what is limiting growth. If you don't have moisture, or you need to add several nutrients, then fertilizer is not cost effective.
A second key point is what are your other options. If you can rent pasture cheaply then fertilizer is not cost effective.
A third point is when and what. The time of year and the type of forage really effects the response. Not sure what your native is. Improved pasture usually responses more.
A fourth point is re cyle of the fertilizer input. P & K will cycle back around much more than N.

So the complicated answer is it depends on when and where... :???: Do a test strip if you really what to know.

I usually apply a hit of N and S annually before green up, occasionally apply a little P or K if one is limiting, and apply a little clover seed where needed. Then I de stock if things don't work out as planned.