So 50% AI take isn't any good? Read this.

[novatech]

TexasBred hope you didnt take that as i was doubting you not the case dairy does make it easier just saying job well done with either. I try not to doubt what anybody says abot A.I. work lots of different variables out there.

I know bse...no offense at all....and yes it is very time consuming...but dairy cattle (especially lactating) are harder to get "stuck" as well due to the intense outside pressures put on them by us so to me that makes the "first lady" even better. ;-) Heifers...sometimes it seems you can just sling the stuff in the general direction and they "stick".

I agree. I think the article is giving the percentage as a general rule. There are exceptions to the general rule. Dun has literally trained his cattle to expect AI. Most probably don't know any better. Secondly he is completely confident in what he is doing. No messing around, just getting the job done. The cattle are calm and relaxed. The odds improve greatly. On the other hand take a bunch of cows that don't know the routine and an AI tech just as bad your odds will go down.
The other thing is breed. Dairy cows as stated above have their problems. Brahmans definitely have theirs. European cattle seem to be a little easier.
The first thing you have to realize is that they are women and should be treated as such.

I forgot to mention that there is a big diference between AI'ing a large of group of commercal cattle and AI'ing a small herd. In a small herd you get to know the cattle on an individual basis. In the large commercial herds they are just another cow.

 

[bse]

Well spoken novatech.

 

[TexasBred]

I agree about the technician confidence level, routine and technique at least. Whether or not cows "adapt" to AI or get use to it I don't know. Hard to believe they would as it only happens once a year. But my wife swears that many of them often look back at her after being released from the chute as if to say "thank you". :lol: In our case they are simply put into the chute, treated like a lady, the procedure is quietly and quickly performed and they are released back into the general population.

 

[djinwa]

I keep hearing about AI being expensive. Yes, it is, but I believe this thread started with a guy with 3 to 5 cows. I would say buying or raising a bull and keeping him around all year for less than 5 cows would be more expensive on a per cow basis. Not to mention that bulls can be a pain. And probably lower quality calves from him than you could get from an AI bull. Better calves alone could offset the cost of AI.

Ruark, you asked about the meaning of timed AI vs breeding on heats. The timed AI is when you give hormones to get a group to come into heat at the same time so you don't have to watch individuals to know when they are in heat, and can have the tech come do all at once.

"Breeding on heats" means just watching them to see when they are in heat without giving hormones. Takes more time, but if you catch them right, better chance of it sticking than with artificially induced heats.

A common reason for failure to conceive is poor heat detection by the herdsman.

I am a smalltime amateur, and have had 3 different cows/heifers bred AI 7 times in the last few years. They took on 6 of those. The one time it didn't take was my fault, as I had a single cow and misread her heat, and called the tech too early. If you're going to observe for natural heats, you need to understand the following graph. Note that ovulation doesn't occur until 10 hours after standing heat ends. So there isn't a big hurry to AI when you see them standing. Standing heat means the one in heat will stand still while another mounts her. The one doing the mounting is not necessarily the one in heat.

 

[Black Coos]

A.I. has it place, select many different type bulls for each type of cow..
Also use a higher quality bull than you could every buy...

That is what ai is about...

As far as owning a Bull, Lease One, 300$ ayear, or season(90) days, and take him home....Look around there are nice bulls to be had...

 

[novatech]

I agree about the technician confidence level, routine and technique at least. Whether or not cows "adapt" to AI or get use to it I don't know. Hard to believe they would as it only happens once a year. But my wife swears that many of them often look back at her after being released from the chute as if to say "thank you". :lol: In our case they are simply put into the chute, treated like a lady, the procedure is quietly and quickly performed and they are released back into the general population.

Have you ever known a woman to forget anything you did poorly. ;-)

 

[TexasBred]

I agree about the technician confidence level, routine and technique at least. Whether or not cows "adapt" to AI or get use to it I don't know. Hard to believe they would as it only happens once a year. But my wife swears that many of them often look back at her after being released from the chute as if to say "thank you". :lol: In our case they are simply put into the chute, treated like a lady, the procedure is quietly and quickly performed and they are released back into the general population.

Have you ever known a woman to forget anything you did poorly. ;-)

ROFLMAOOOOO....come to think of it...you're right on as usual. :clap: :clap: And if by chance you do it right not a word said.

 

[dun]

I agree about the technician confidence level, routine and technique at least. Whether or not cows "adapt" to AI or get use to it I don't know. Hard to believe they would as it only happens once a year. But my wife swears that many of them often look back at her after being released from the chute as if to say "thank you". :lol: In our case they are simply put into the chute, treated like a lady, the procedure is quietly and quickly performed and they are released back into the general population.

Have you ever known a woman to forget anything you did poorly. ;-)

ROFLMAOOOOO....come to think of it...you're right on as usual. :clap: :clap: And if by chance you do it right not a word said.

A couple of years ago we had a 12 year old cow that had never been AIed. When she walked out of the chute she turned around and glared at me. She did end up having a nice heifer calf though

 

[WORANCH]

The other thing that many are not considering is timed AI vs. breeding on heats. This is apples vs. oranges.

For those of us who are utterly without clue (this is the "Beginner's Board," remember), would you mind explaining the above terminology?
Thanks

Try this site .


http://usa.absglobal.com/tech_serv/synch/beef/cow_selectsynchCIDR.phtml


Breeding on heats you will get a better conception rate. But it requires heat detecting twice a day .

 

[grubbie]

"Breeding on heats" means just watching them to see when they are in heat without giving hormones. Takes more time, but if you catch them right, better chance of it sticking than with artificially induced heats.

I have done some AI myself...I find this to be an interesting point. When I was doing it, I was syncing the heifers then watching for heat (AM/PM rule). You are saying with natural heat rather than induced, the conception rates are better? Is this proven, or just what you have experienced? If that is a fact, makes me wonder if a person couldn't sync to get them cycling together, then wait for the second heat to breed, which might be a little more natural, yet still somewhat in sync. In my case, I do need them cycling close together so I can catch as many as possible at a given time (days off).

 

[dun]

makes me wonder if a person couldn't sync to get them cycling together, then wait for the second heat to breed, which might be a little more natural, yet still somewhat in sync. In my case, I do need them cycling close together so I can catch as many as possible at a given time (days off).

That will be what we do from now on if we ever sync any heifers. They still come in within a few days of each other that way. The few heifers we have tried syncing have missed on the induced heat and all settled to the next heat.

 

[Ruark]

That will be what we do from now on if we ever sync any heifers. They still come in within a few days of each other that way. The few heifers we have tried syncing have missed on the induced heat and all settled to the next heat.

Would you mind saying that in English? This is the Beginners Board, remember.

Thanks

 

[3waycross]

That will be what we do from now on if we ever sync any heifers. They still come in within a few days of each other that way. The few heifers we have tried syncing have missed on the induced heat and all settled to the next heat.

Would you mind saying that in English? This is the Beginners Board, remember.

Thanks

how about give them a shot that makes them all cycle at the same time, then wait approx 21 days for them to cycle again naturally and breed them on observed heat(mounting each other etc.)

 

[jaxn]

I do believe the technician is key here to good conception rate whether synchronizing or heat detecting. Synchronizing works well for us as well as many commercial clients that we AI for. Up to 4000 head of heifers for one rancher alone. Years of experience and excellent understanding of reproduction, as well as gentle handling methods make for a better than 80 percent conception rate every time. Yes it is harder to get cows bred than heifers, but it does work . And with the price of good commercial bulls averaging so high this year....semen is cheap and then use clean up bulls for one cycle. We have culled since 1982 for ease of AI conception. And it allows us to use superior genetics on cows we want to keep heifers from and those we sell bulls from as well.

JMHO
Dee

 

[regolith]

grubbie and 3way: my experience suggests that breeding only on the second heat would be a complete waste of time - if you're going to synch at all, might as well catch what you can on the first round because second (natural or not) isn't likely to be better.

However, you might note that I usually synchronise anestrous dairy cows, some of them not more than 6 - 8 weeks between calving and synchronising. One year saw about 50% still holding at 3 weeks to CIDRs, 25% to the second cycle and three weeks later a totally exhausted and lame bull because 16 cows returned for a third cycle all on the same night (he was still valiantly attempting to serve as many as he could come daylight). Yet other years, the returns have spread themselves over the entire three weeks, with maybe a cluster at 18 - 22 days. My other observation (and in the group synchronised that year, this was true for those that had been maybe less than 8 - 9 weeks after calving) was that a lot of cows missed cycles, in a pretty random pattern. Slipping back into anestrus then cycling when they're ready is what you might expect, but some cows cycled twice then skipped a cycle or other variations.

 

[3waycross]

I guess I will see hoe it worked soom. I did just that with 3 cows last year. So far one of them calved to the cleanup bull 8 days after her AI date. The other two did not calve yet and look like it will be at least 2 more weeks. So I am not optimistic that they caught on the NEXT cycle to the cleanup bull either.

To be fair though they were in terrible shape coming off the Fescue in Missouri.

 

[m&kCattle]

Guess its all in what works for ya. Everyone will have a different opinion. Myself, I'm not a fan of timed protocols because I haven't had luck with them. I like the Gnrh/ lut/ breed on heat deal myself. I can get over 50% with this. The guy putting the straw in better know what he's doin and how to handle the semen but I'd say the biggest reason they don't settle is she wasn't standing. I've had guys say yeah she's in cuz she's riding, acting nervous, discharging, etc. ONLY BREED ON A STANDING HEAT ( am / pm ) if your not using a timed protocol and you shouldnt have a problem beating 50%. Another factor that gets overlooked is handling, can't expect to take your hottest cow run her around for an hour to get her in the chute and have her settle. I have some ( rodeo bred ) cows that I won't try just because odds aren't in my favor.

 

[grubbie]

grubbie and 3way: my experience suggests that breeding only on the second heat would be a complete waste of time - if you're going to synch at all, might as well catch what you can on the first round because second (natural or not) isn't likely to be better.

Just to be clear, when I say wait till the second heat, I mean to START on the second heat. If anything comes up bullin' at the third heat I would hit 'em again. Should still be within a few days of each other. This all depends of course, on if this original statement was a FACT. I look for any advantage, working a 60 hour week and trying to AI cows is tough. I am about forced into timed AI rather than heat detection. I have to time it for days off. Truthfully, I am a few years away from doing any AI again, (long story), but as I said, always looking for an advantage and this was an interesting topic.

 

[Ruark]

What do you mean by a "standing" heat?

 

[dun]

What do you mean by a "standing" heat?

Standing to be ridden/mounted, i.e not trying to get out from under another cow/bull/heifer/steer