So 50% AI take isn't any good? Read this.

[Ruark]

Some time back I was in a discussion on here of using AI vs. a bull, especially for a small operation with 3 to 5 breeding cows. I mentioned talking to somebody who said he got about a 50% take with AI, and several people on here jumped up and said if you're only getting 50% you need to fire your vet, or whatever. Well, according to the article on today's Cattle Today site, 50-55% is about par. Any comments? Here's the article, if you haven't seen it already. It's on the home page:

http://cattletoday.com/archive/2011/February/CT2432.php

 

[novaman]

"It seems like we've hit a wall with heifers at about 55 to 60 percent AI pregnancy rates in commercial herds. We are not really sure why. Now, in the post-partum cows we are seeing 55 to 65 percent in many of our large-scale studies that have been done with producers. I am conservative, telling producers that they shouldn't expect more than 50 to 55 percent, although many will do better than that."
He is talking pregnancy rates also, not conception rates.

 

[dun]

Maybe with heifers synchronization programs with 50% is ok. If that's all I could expect from sync heifer programs I would use a sync protocol and would breed on observed heats. That's what we do and run way higher then 50%

 

[3waycross]

Maybe with heifers synchronization programs with 50% is ok. If that's all I could expect from sync heifer programs I would use a sync protocol and would breed on observed heats. That's what we do and run way higher then 50%

We did that last year and it appears that we will be 6 of 7 for sure and maybe 7 for 7.

On the other hand none of my cows that were fescued in Missouri caught on the AI and one didn't rebreed at all.

 

[Jogeephus]

My son's girlfriend is averaging 80% with her ai'ing. I don't do it but if he keeps her around I may have to start.

 

[TexasBred]

Some time back I was in a discussion on here of using AI vs. a bull, especially for a small operation with 3 to 5 breeding cows. I mentioned talking to somebody who said he got about a 50% take with AI, and several people on here jumped up and said if you're only getting 50% you need to fire your vet, or whatever. Well, according to the article on today's Cattle Today site, 50-55% is about par. Any comments? Here's the article, if you haven't seen it already. It's on the home page:

http://cattletoday.com/archive/2011/February/CT2432.php

If you're happy with 50-55% then pat yourself on the back. It won't work for me and our conceptions on first service is well, well, well above that. I'll agree with those that said get a new AI tech.

 

[tsmaxx47]

my dad AI'd cattle for years and if he was only successful 50% of the of the time; we would have been better off selling pencils. 50% is not very good no matter if it's about par or not. my bull is close to 100% and the time he wasn't was the cow not him. hey, if AI is the only option, go for it; but there are other options that are more effective than 50% - and more cost effective...

 

[TexasBred]

my dad AI'd cattle for years and if he was only successful 50% of the of the time; we would have been better off selling pencils. 50% is not very good no matter if it's about par or not. my bull is close to 100% and the time he wasn't was the cow not him. hey, if AI is the only option, go for it; but there are other options that are more effective than 50% - and more cost effective...

Yep...a little stupid to waste this much good semen and still be happy with your mediocre success rate.

 

[Lon]

never have been around AI myself but few neighbors do it. most say thier happy if above 75%. one neighbor got 63 one year and in the mid 50 the next and quit doing it after that. said was a waste of money being that low.

 

[bigag03]

my dad AI'd cattle for years and if he was only successful 50% of the of the time; we would have been better off selling pencils. 50% is not very good no matter if it's about par or not. my bull is close to 100% and the time he wasn't was the cow not him. hey, if AI is the only option, go for it; but there are other options that are more effective than 50% - and more cost effective...

I hear this same comment all the time and it is just WRONG. Your bull got 100% in 60-90 days or for some, 365 days. If timed AI gets 50% of your cows bred on day 1 of the breeding season, the math does work. Yes I prefer a higher conception rate, but even at 50%, the tighter calving window, larger calves, and more uniform calf crop, and need for fewer bulls does pay.

The other thing that many are not considering is timed AI vs. breeding on heats. This is apples vs. oranges. Most of the studies will show industry average for timed at 50-55% and industry average breeding on heats is 70-75%. Many breeders do not have the ability to breed on heats for a variety of reasons, then you guys that are breeding 10 hd that you have selected and managed to AI on first service beat guys up for 50% conception on timed AI. Learn the facts outside of your little box of the world.

 

[TexasBred]

Yes I prefer a higher conception rate, but even at 50%, the tighter calving window, larger calves, and more uniform calf crop, and need for fewer bulls does pay.The other thing that many are not considering is timed AI vs. breeding on heats. This is apples vs. oranges. Most of the studies will show industry average for timed at 50-55% and industry average breeding on heats is 70-75%. Many breeders do not have the ability to breed on heats for a variety of reasons, then you guys that are breeding 10 hd that you have selected and managed to AI on first service beat guys up for 50% conception on timed AI. Learn the facts outside of your little box of the world.

You lost me...how does 50% on 1st service give you a tighter calving window and more uniform calf crop?? You don't have a crop...you have crops...plural.

Wife has been breeding cattle for over 20 years, maximum of roughly 800 a year of ours and hundreds more for others... all "bred on observed heat"....would bet you that during that entire period she gets over 90% bred on 1st service. Raise your standards!!!!

 

[novaman]

A beef cow/heifer should be 75+% conception rate I believe. I haven't run the numbers lately but I think I'm over 50% CR on my dairy cows and they are some of the worst animals to get bred!

 

[wildsawmill]

so i got 2 heffers to bred & dont know anything about ai but would like to get limm bred to them this idea of only one probly going to take sounds like why bother
so were does a guy learn all about this ai stuff cause i only find opions here?
called the vet they said they dont mess with it. the other local vet has never called back & i left 3 messages over a weeks time inquireing about ai each time so im thinking he's not interested in ai

 

[bse]

I do some A.I work all my own and some for other people theres several good points on this thread for both sides if your watching standing heat on 800 plus cows thats a job well done and it will get better conception rate than if your on timed and if your breding for someone else your kinda at there mercy knowing heats so that would make a difference and play a part in the 50% and some folks that turn the bull in 15 days later may have a few natural calves there calling A.I. If you A.I 100 head and get 50% on day one 21 days later bull gets 25% gives you 75% bull cleans up last 25% at 2nd cycle 100% calved at 42days cuts your bull power in half. And to Windsawmill A.I would be the best option on 2 head and not all vets know about A.I work. Im not on either side just a few points.

 

[TexasBred]

I do some A.I work all my own and some for other people theres several good points on this thread for both sides if your watching standing heat on 800 plus cows thats a job well done and it will get better conception rate than if your on timed and if your breding for someone else your kinda at there mercy knowing heats so that would make a difference and play a part in the 50% and some folks that turn the bull in 15 days later may have a few natural calves there calling A.I. If you A.I 100 head and get 50% on day one 21 days later bull gets 25% gives you 75% bull cleans up last 25% at 2nd cycle 100% calved at 42days cuts your bull power in half. And to Windsawmill A.I would be the best option on 2 head and not all vets know about A.I work. Im not on either side just a few points.

bse, these were all dairy cattle, both lactating and heifers... so easier to watch and breed.

 

[Ruark]

The other thing that many are not considering is timed AI vs. breeding on heats. This is apples vs. oranges.

For those of us who are utterly without clue (this is the "Beginner's Board," remember), would you mind explaining the above terminology?
Thanks

 

[tsmaxx47]

my dad AI'd cattle for years and if he was only successful 50% of the of the time; we would have been better off selling pencils. 50% is not very good no matter if it's about par or not. my bull is close to 100% and the time he wasn't was the cow not him. hey, if AI is the only option, go for it; but there are other options that are more effective than 50% - and more cost effective...

I hear this same comment all the time and it is just WRONG. Your bull got 100% in 60-90 days or for some, 365 days. If timed AI gets 50% of your cows bred on day 1 of the breeding season, the math does work. Yes I prefer a higher conception rate, but even at 50%, the tighter calving window, larger calves, and more uniform calf crop, and need for fewer bulls does pay.

The other thing that many are not considering is timed AI vs. breeding on heats. This is apples vs. oranges. Most of the studies will show industry average for timed at 50-55% and industry average breeding on heats is 70-75%. Many breeders do not have the ability to breed on heats for a variety of reasons, then you guys that are breeding 10 hd that you have selected and managed to AI on first service beat guys up for 50% conception on timed AI. Learn the facts outside of your little box of the world.

simmer down there bigag; i wasn't beating up on anybody that's satisfied with a 50% conception rate. there are obvious reasons that an operation would use an AI service and i applaud that; but that being said, the AI service would have to be better than 50% for me personally in any circumstance, to challange a bull. when a bull works well, it's pretty much a foolproof deal. i just don't have the time to mess with the idiosyncrasies of AI service - plus the expense.

 

[dun]

so i got 2 heffers to bred & dont know anything about ai but would like to get limm bred to them this idea of only one probly going to take sounds like why bother
so were does a guy learn all about this ai stuff cause i only find opions here?
called the vet they said they dont mess with it. the other local vet has never called back & i left 3 messages over a weeks time inquireing about ai each time so im thinking he's not interested in ai

rslef, maybe have the herdsman at a local daity breed for you or contact one of the major studs and see if they have a rep that services your area

 

[bse]

TexasBred hope you didnt take that as i was doubting you not the case dairy does make it easier just saying job well done with either. I try not to doubt what anybody says abot A.I. work lots of different variables out there.

 

[TexasBred]

TexasBred hope you didnt take that as i was doubting you not the case dairy does make it easier just saying job well done with either. I try not to doubt what anybody says abot A.I. work lots of different variables out there.

I know bse...no offense at all....and yes it is very time consuming...but dairy cattle (especially lactating) are harder to get "stuck" as well due to the intense outside pressures put on them by us so to me that makes the "first lady" even better. ;-) Heifers...sometimes it seems you can just sling the stuff in the general direction and they "stick".