Smaller calves from older cows?

[Stocker Steve]

The data dogs show how AVERAGE weaning wts. decline as cows get old. I see a few that have a small er calf, but then seem to come back the next year. Have you seen this? Is it just random variation or do you have other ideas?

 

[Supa Dexta]

Depends on the weather, feed quality and availability, bull used, and gene mix. Fly control would also pay a role.

As a rule old cows can still raise whoppers though under the right conditions. Then usually the cow falls apart, before taking it out of the calf.

 

[Bigfoot]

Her genetics never change. Her milk production could.

 

[u4411clb]

Cows that are older and have issues with there teeth can produce normal and bigger calves as long as they don't have to work too hard to go out and graze and go find forage. In dry years or large pastures with not much grass the broken mouth and short mouth older cows are not going to produce like the younger cows.

 

[Nesikep]

Around here I find cows start to show their age around 12-14 years old... Haven't had many I kept beyond that since most of them, despite raising a decent calf every year, just weren't genetically good enough to push for another couple replacement heifers from... I'm down to my last 2004 model right now, a big old cow and she's in fine condition

 

[Bigfoot]

I try to only keep heifers from my older cows. Figure they've made the criteria for success here. Maybe it'll be genetic.

I'm also an advocate of selling a cow, before she starts showing wear.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'm also an advocate of selling a cow, before she starts showing wear.

I have started to pull a couple thin ones after we wean in March, and hold them in a lot with good hay and a little by product. Usually they are a couple first calvers and several old ones. Then I make a sort at turn out time. The old ones I kept this year are surprising me so far.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Depends on the weather, feed quality and availability, bull used, and gene mix. Fly control would also pay a role.

Good points. One of our farms has a lot of reed canary and less legume. I think the older cows struggle more there.

 

[Caustic Burno]

The data dogs show how AVERAGE weaning wts. decline as cows get old. I see a few that have a small er calf, but then seem to come back the next year. Have you seen this? Is it just random variation or do you have other ideas?

I would put more stock in the study if forage was included over the production life of the cow.
Good grass=good teeth = good nutrition =longevity.

 

[TCRanch]

I noticed a lot of our older cows are not breeding back as quickly but still raise healthy calves that weigh an average of 650 - 700 lbs when we wean at 6 months. The exception is one of our 10 year old cows, can't weigh more than 1400 lbs, breeds like clockwork and raises an enormous calf. Udder, disposition, teeth, condition, feet, overall health great. Unfortunately for me she has NEVER given me a heifer.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I noticed a lot of our older cows are not breeding back as quickly but still raise healthy calves that weigh an average of 650 - 700 lbs when we wean at 6 months. The exception is one of our 10 year old cows, can't weigh more than 1400 lbs, breeds like clockwork and raises an enormous calf. Udder, disposition, teeth, condition, feet, overall health great. Unfortunately for me she has NEVER given me a heifer.

Of course! dun has/had one like that, I think he finally got a heifer out of her.

For me, when I finally get a heifer from the one that I REALLY want a heifer from, the calf is a lunatic! And therefore gets sold.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Good grass=good teeth = good nutrition =longevity.

:nod: :nod:

What he said!

 

[Nesikep]

I noticed a lot of our older cows are not breeding back as quickly but still raise healthy calves that weigh an average of 650 - 700 lbs when we wean at 6 months. The exception is one of our 10 year old cows, can't weigh more than 1400 lbs, breeds like clockwork and raises an enormous calf. Udder, disposition, teeth, condition, feet, overall health great. Unfortunately for me she has NEVER given me a heifer.

Of course! dun has/had one like that, I think he finally got a heifer out of her.

For me, when I finally get a heifer from the one that I REALLY want a heifer from, the calf is a lunatic! And therefore gets sold.

I'm lucky that my version of that kind of cow had 11 heifers out of 16 total calves.. I have 3 daughters still

 

[Davemk]

Why don't you spread her genes by using her sons? Half sib breeding is one of the quickest ways to improve a herd. Quick being a relative term.

 

[TCRanch]

I noticed a lot of our older cows are not breeding back as quickly but still raise healthy calves that weigh an average of 650 - 700 lbs when we wean at 6 months. The exception is one of our 10 year old cows, can't weigh more than 1400 lbs, breeds like clockwork and raises an enormous calf. Udder, disposition, teeth, condition, feet, overall health great. Unfortunately for me she has NEVER given me a heifer.

Of course! dun has/had one like that, I think he finally got a heifer out of her.

For me, when I finally get a heifer from the one that I REALLY want a heifer from, the calf is a lunatic! And therefore gets sold.

Yup! Another fave cow, one of our best, finally gave me a heifer this year and I was so excited I almost cried. I hate her! She has attitude and is skittish. Still gonna keep her after we wean and force the love - if she doesn't eventually simmer down I'll sell her as bred next year.

 

[TCRanch]

I noticed a lot of our older cows are not breeding back as quickly but still raise healthy calves that weigh an average of 650 - 700 lbs when we wean at 6 months. The exception is one of our 10 year old cows, can't weigh more than 1400 lbs, breeds like clockwork and raises an enormous calf. Udder, disposition, teeth, condition, feet, overall health great. Unfortunately for me she has NEVER given me a heifer.

Of course! dun has/had one like that, I think he finally got a heifer out of her.

For me, when I finally get a heifer from the one that I REALLY want a heifer from, the calf is a lunatic! And therefore gets sold.

I'm lucky that my version of that kind of cow had 11 heifers out of 16 total calves.. I have 3 daughters still

I'm a little jealous, Nesi :mrgreen:

 

[WalnutCrest]

Why don't you spread her genes by using her sons?<snip>

A good question.

 

[farmerjan]

We do find that our old cows do tend to have/raise a smaller calf. Mostly is the teeth/forage/feed and the cow just not getting as much to eat. We do supplement our "grandma" cows if they have fall calves. If they raise 2 small calves in a row, it is time for them to go. I think it is an indication that their body can no longer provide for the calf because they just don't make the milk. We have had some that were on the cull list, and do really good so decide to keep them another year. Most often is a mistake. I keep saying that when you make a decision to sell, don't second guess. Make the decision and do it. I have been wrong 75% of the time when I change from what I originally decide and the cow has problems, doesn't breed, gets down, you name it. I do sometimes give an old cow 18 months between calves if she is a real good cow, and gets thin with a calf, then she will get held back 6 months and go with the next breeding group. But, they do seem to have a smaller calf and it weans off smaller.