Slow Down On the AntiBiotics!
- Thread starter MikeC
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MikeC
Well-known member
Chris H":1fshoh06 said:
I have no idea of the reasoning. All I know is that beef is taking/will take part of the blame.
First thing we know, anti-biotics will have to administered by vets only.
We don't want that to happen.
I agree with your concerns. Sometimes I wonder how boards like this one contribute to the misuse of antibiotics? Almost every day someone writes a post about a sick calf/cow and get responses ranging from give it LA200 to penicillin to Nuflor to some other high powered antibiotic.
If someone is inexperienced enough to not recognize what's wrong with an animal, should we really be recommending treatments without seeing it ourselves? Then add in things like newer variations of old drugs that have different dosage rates & withdrawal periods, there could be some real dangers in internet advice.
If someone is inexperienced enough to not recognize what's wrong with an animal, should we really be recommending treatments without seeing it ourselves? Then add in things like newer variations of old drugs that have different dosage rates & withdrawal periods, there could be some real dangers in internet advice.
jkwilson
Well-known member
Chris H":pvbqda35 said:
I'd expect most of us are pretty well used to those bacteria, and our immune systems handle them. I'd imagine the average cattleman's pickup steering wheel is heavily populated with those bacteria, and I doubt many of us wash our hands after driving. Heck, I've been known to grab a burger on the way out of the salebarn and eat it while driving home. You can pretty well bet I've had a hold of some critter's messy tail along the way, without doing anything more than wiping my hand on my pants or the cow's back before I eat. Maybe I'm just lucky and/or stupid
, but so far, so good.
hillsdown
Well-known member
Chris H":3jei9nqr said:
I bet if people saw how dirty and disgusting slaughter houses are they would never buy meat from a store again.
Also ask the feed lots how much unnecessary antibiotics they stick into their animals.
Weaver
Well-known member
I think the real problem with resistence to antibiotics lies with the people themselves. For a large majority of people, everytime they get sick with a cough or cold, they go to the doctor and expect antibiotics even though what they have might be a virus that has to run its course. Then when they feel better they stop taking the antibiotics and stick the rest of them in a cabinet for use the next time they feel bad. I feel this is a much larger problem than getting residual antibiotics through meat.
There is a lot of truth to this statement. I don't know anyone who doesn't have "1/2 a bottle of this" and "some of that" in their medicine cabinet just in case they need it later.Weaver":148ozxe8 said:
ALX.
Well-known member
hillsdown":3a4rwbs9 said:
I would really like to discuss this with you face to face.
hillsdown
Well-known member
ALX.":179pax2e said:
ALX I should have wrote the people not the houses themselves.I have heard stories from people that work the line that almost made me throw up and I have a strong dispostion.Some people need to really think of hygiene.I guess the same would be said about some restaurants though.
andybob
Well-known member
When I took my army medical course the main blame for antibiotic abuse was due to people not finishing whole prescribed courses, and so selectively killing susceptible bacteria, leaving surviving resistant strains to multiply, we were held responsible for ensuring all soldiers were administered antibiotics under supervision to make sure the courses were finished, fortunately I ended up a combat medic and so was spared this boring task. When I did my meat hygiene training, we broached the subject of antibiotic abuse in farm animals with Dr Horace Thornton, he maintained that the threat of antibiotic residues in meat was minimal, and especially in the context of our system where daily random residue tests were performed at all the abattoirs under the veterinary department durisdiction. Hillsdown where is/are these abattoirs situated? all the abattoirs I inspected as a meat technologist had a strict showerin in policy, and regular swabbing of personell, especially hands, nails and hair was part of our bacterial culturing routine, zero tolerance on poor personal hygiene was the policy in all the facilities we covered.
One of our inmates has worked in South St.Paul slaughter for over 12 years. I asked him about the condition of the slaughter houses. He said they are kept incredibly clean, and you can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting a USDA inspector. He also said there is a specific state in the US that consistently brings in the most delicious looking, well marbled meat in the union, said you can tell by a glance when they are hanging that thats where they are from. He said it is the first place he is going when he gets out for a big prime rib. Hmmmm ~ its not MN.
TheBullLady
Well-known member
I have to agree that I think people misusing or over using antibiotics is more to blame, but I also bet they'll find cattle producers liable. It's been talked about for years. And we dont' want it to happen. Think about how many years it takes now for new antibiotics for cattle to become available.
larryshoat
Well-known member
Chris H":8qd0x29e said:
Why don't we see high percentages of farmers & ranchers being stricken with e-coli, staph, etc?[/quote
The simple answer is that we are immune to it.When we hire a new worker in the calf barn,if they did'nt come from a farm they will be sick in no time.As far as antibiotics we are probably not using enogh.Animals not treated long enough are probably a good opportunity to produce resistant bacteria.
Larry
larryshoat":bw8zd8ar said:
Larry, that was the answer I was watching for. I think the increase in numbers of sick people is due to a lack of immunity in the general population more than an increase in antibiotic resistant bacteria. We've probably always had these 'superbugs' but people died from it without the medical profession identifying it. We had 'survival of the fittest' working for us to help boost our natural immunity. Now, antibiotics are handed out on a regular basis and people are not building an immunity to the milder bugs.
While we're at it, how about the routine use of antibacterial soaps and waterless disinfectants by people? These things do not kill 100% of the germs & bacteria, so what's left is stronger.
grannysoo
Well-known member
Call me paranoid, but I think that we have a problem with antibiotics, hormones, and the like.
To anyone over 40 - look back to when you were a kid in high school. Think about your friends, male and female, and their sizes.
Now look ahead to today and look at our kids and their friends. The development of the girls is unbelieveable and the size of the guys is incredible.
Makes me wonder just how much the constant diet of McD's, BK, KFC, and the others have effected our kids.
As to the slaughterhouse? Mine is owned by a friend I went to school with. His dad had did this for years and now the son. It's clean. I go there when my meat is processed. I'm not scared a bit!
As to the drugs/antibiotics? I have only given 1 shot of antibiotics in the last 6 years and it was for pinkeye.
Vaccinations? We don't do it. My herd is closed and not exposed to other cows. If there is a problem, we will deal with it, but no one in our area is running a vaccine program and we have some pretty big cattle farmers here. If you look at some of the meat that has been exposed to vaccines, you'll question whether you want to eat that meat or not.
I choose not to.......
To anyone over 40 - look back to when you were a kid in high school. Think about your friends, male and female, and their sizes.
Now look ahead to today and look at our kids and their friends. The development of the girls is unbelieveable and the size of the guys is incredible.
Makes me wonder just how much the constant diet of McD's, BK, KFC, and the others have effected our kids.
As to the slaughterhouse? Mine is owned by a friend I went to school with. His dad had did this for years and now the son. It's clean. I go there when my meat is processed. I'm not scared a bit!
As to the drugs/antibiotics? I have only given 1 shot of antibiotics in the last 6 years and it was for pinkeye.
Vaccinations? We don't do it. My herd is closed and not exposed to other cows. If there is a problem, we will deal with it, but no one in our area is running a vaccine program and we have some pretty big cattle farmers here. If you look at some of the meat that has been exposed to vaccines, you'll question whether you want to eat that meat or not.
I choose not to.......
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Grannysoo, I apreciate your reply and you say your herd is closed. What about your bulls? Are they home grown? Or do you buy them? Do you buy them from breeders around you or do you buy from farms who may or may not vaccinate? If you keep your own bulls how do you go about preventing in breeding
If you are buying bulls then the herd is not closed. Do you screen those bulls for PI BVD or IBR or anything that could infect your herd?
In your herd how many open cows or how many abortions or late cows? These could be signs of PI cows.
Last question, do you background your own animals or do the get weaned on the truck and have you followed up on those calves to see how they performed in the feed lot?
Sorry to ask so many questions. I'm not looking for answers to all these questions just food for thought.
If you are buying bulls then the herd is not closed. Do you screen those bulls for PI BVD or IBR or anything that could infect your herd?
In your herd how many open cows or how many abortions or late cows? These could be signs of PI cows.
Last question, do you background your own animals or do the get weaned on the truck and have you followed up on those calves to see how they performed in the feed lot?
Sorry to ask so many questions. I'm not looking for answers to all these questions just food for thought.
grannysoo
Well-known member
rockridgecattle":2f3arih0 said:
Let's see if these questions can be answered:
Bulls: Come from my brother (another closed herd). Home grown down the road from me, not vaccinated. I am going to need to buy a bull in 2 years, so my herd will be opened then. At the time I buy him, my farm vet will make a house call to do blood and stool specimens at the farm that he comes from. When he gets to my farm and before he ever gets to my herd, he will be quarantined and my farm vet will go over him from top to bottom including blood and stool samples. He will be a lonesome boy for several weeks.
Abortions? None
Open cows? None
Late cows? Depends on what you call late. About 75% calf in the spring, the other 25% calf in the fall.
Wean on the truck? Never
Feed lot? Never
My bulls get fed on the farm and go to the butcher where they are sold by the whole or half. Most of my heifers go back into my herd to keep building it up.
Anything that I don't like gets wheels under it and is gone. I am very selective about the way my cows look, the disposition, the mother instincts, etc. Gave 1 mother and 4 babies wheels a couple of months ago and let them roll away to some other farm.
My feed lot? Quality grass, quality hay, minerals, molassas lick. Finishing them off for butchering? 2 pounds of sweet feed per day for a little more marbling.....
I am running around 30 cows now + calves. While I understand why many cattle producers vaccinate, it's still not my choice. Low stress, gentle handling & happy cows mean few problems.
I think common sense rules on this topic, and the majority of the common sense holders are those right here on these boards!
Live with "dirt" and you won't die of "germs" .... another one of old granny's sayings.
I hope you all realize I am not talking extremes here.... ;-)
Michele
Live with "dirt" and you won't die of "germs" .... another one of old granny's sayings.
I hope you all realize I am not talking extremes here.... ;-)
Michele
