The AAA seems to be downplaying the potential significance of fawn calf relative to curly calf and NH - saying it will "only" affect 3% of the population. They also say it's a "simple recessive" like the other traits. How can one simple recessive be less wide spread than another? Even though 1680 was obviously a widely used sire . . . so was 598 . . . don't get it. Or is it all some form of panic control?
Simple recessive genes - FCS
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I think 1 of the reasons the % won,t be so high is that 598 was mainly seen as a maternal sire whose daughters would more likely be culled for production reasons than for example the 1680's that were more numbers based. A second reason is that there may be a phenotypic correlation from carriers of CA (contractural arachdactaly (sp?) the new name for FCS, and non-carriers.
the primary reason we continue to deal with these recessive defects is that in the absence of linebreeding there is no practical plan for sire/daughter matings of sires with breed wide influence so the problems multiply for decades until exposed by unintentional line breeding in generations 3, 4, 5 or 6.
the primary reason we continue to deal with these recessive defects is that in the absence of linebreeding there is no practical plan for sire/daughter matings of sires with breed wide influence so the problems multiply for decades until exposed by unintentional line breeding in generations 3, 4, 5 or 6.
WichitaLineMan
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robert":2tzoo9ol said:
Good post, robert.
WIsh you'd post more. We could use the wisdom around here.
alacattleman
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WichitaLineMan":bg30nyng said:
Good post, robert.
WIsh you'd post more. We could use the wisdom around here.[/quote] lot of intelligent people on here
JHH
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robert said:
WichitaLineMan
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Because the Angus phenomenon is based on whoever ABS is pumping this year. OR one of the other semen pimps.
Bull of the month club
Bull of the month club
wlm, thanks for the compliment, can I use a hereford breeders' words as an endorsement for a run at the AAA Board this fall?
while we used more older sires or homebred sires rather than stud bulls the past few years I think the studs could easily play anajor role in not just identifying carriers of current defects through sire / daughter matings but also pick up on new ones like NH a whole lot quicker. Heck, you don't even need to use registered cows to accomplish this.
while we used more older sires or homebred sires rather than stud bulls the past few years I think the studs could easily play anajor role in not just identifying carriers of current defects through sire / daughter matings but also pick up on new ones like NH a whole lot quicker. Heck, you don't even need to use registered cows to accomplish this.
because the answer is known...JHH":13m6vltb said:
you cant have the ridiculously high numbers and most people are trying to get the name of another ranch in their pedigrees instead their own. the real sad part is that a lot of people think the numbers game is what they are supposed to be doing.
. . . . . soooo . . . . anyway . . . the issue is simply mathematic? there are less 598 females out there then 1680 females? still seems like there are plenty of 598 and 5175 bulls out there but, I suppose, still not as many as 1680. There is nothing less "heritable" re: this simple recessive though - am I right?
Brandonm22
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Exactly, I don't know why the 4 biggest studs don't do this just as a means of protecting themselves and identifying the problems and the superior. It wouldn't even cost much. Find a commercial ranch or two to assemble a 1000 cows. Agree to AI their whole cow herd for them each year, market their calves for them, and give them ~$50 per cow per year in a bonus check ($50g every June or July should be incentive enough to lure somebody) in exchange for picking the matings and controlling the genetic direction of their herd. $50 g, one AI crew two cycles a year, ~900 DNA tests, ~2000 straws of semen from that stud's 20 most popular sires, and the cooperation of one feedlot is all this should cost.
I think Angus breeders are reluctant to linebreed because when Angus went from the dumpy little fineboned pony cows they used to be to the big framed (and frame 5 is big compared to what they were 40-50 years ago) cows that outweigh most Simmentals and Charolais the total gene pool contracted. Angus breeders were much more forward thinking and adopted AI and ET on a much bigger scale than most breeds did. The knowledgable Angus guy is aware of all this and probably is not to eager to go back and revisit some of the flaws in that 7 frame generation that most Angus pedigrees have 5 or 6 generations back.
I think Angus breeders are reluctant to linebreed because when Angus went from the dumpy little fineboned pony cows they used to be to the big framed (and frame 5 is big compared to what they were 40-50 years ago) cows that outweigh most Simmentals and Charolais the total gene pool contracted. Angus breeders were much more forward thinking and adopted AI and ET on a much bigger scale than most breeds did. The knowledgable Angus guy is aware of all this and probably is not to eager to go back and revisit some of the flaws in that 7 frame generation that most Angus pedigrees have 5 or 6 generations back.
Brandonm22
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angus9259":2a0b2f8r said:
The AAA knows how many times both 598 and 1680 show up in the existing registered herd's pedigree. From there calculating the frequency of a simple recessive in that population is relatively simple math. When they say that 1680 shows up more times than 598 I see no reason to doubt them.
WLM you are wrong.... THE (Angus Phenomenon ) is based on High Quality cattle.... I am sure, CAB has done a good job of selling Black angus , and ABS has promoted many Bull of the month club bulls..
BUT, Black Angus cattle got to where they are at, Because they are GOOD cattle.....I will also say some Hereford folks have done well , selling Bulls to us angus folks , to make black baldies with....
BUT, Black Angus cattle got to where they are at, Because they are GOOD cattle.....I will also say some Hereford folks have done well , selling Bulls to us angus folks , to make black baldies with....
JHH
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because the answer is known...Aero":1wpd3day said:
you cant have the ridiculously high numbers and most people are trying to get the name of another ranch in their pedigrees instead their own. the real sad part is that a lot of people think the numbers game is what they are supposed to be doing.[/quote]
I have to agree with you. Now how do you CHANGE the commercial folks and big ranch name folks to quit chasing numbers. We dont. They weed themselves out.
vclavin
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The only way to get GDF on a pedigree is to breed him back to 32 of his own daughters. Of course, this is expensive as it must be monitored/proven by Association before this attribute is acknowledged and animal given credit on his pedigree. It wouldn't take as long as the linebreeding, but must say, the shorter route would be more "sure" of defect free status. Maybe it should be required before allowing AI used from a specific animal.
Valerie
Valerie
